And Happy Holidays to everyone!

I hope Santa brings you incognito offers, approved applications, and a high cpp on redemptions!

Hello! With the permission of the /r/churning mods, I'd like to announce the formation of /r/PretendSpend, a private forum focused on advanced manufactured spending.

What is it? First of all, it's private. But don't dispair, if you want to join, go to the subreddit, and message to request to join. Unlike the /r/manufacturedspending sub, we won't require you to submit a credit report, blood sample, 6 months of bank records, or even disclose your "secret" MS methods! However, we will review your comment history and be selective in who we add to the sub.

What will be discussed? Advanced MS! There will be no basic "how do I use Serve" MS discussions. Hopefully, the invitation process will limit any basic discussions.

We're still in the early planning stages, so we might be a little slow in vetting new subscribers but hopefully we'll be able to build a lean, knowledgeable group of MSers that can both share and develop MS methods!

Look forward to hearing from you "pros"!

Seemingly every week, somebody comments that "MS is dead" or that "MS isn't what it used to be." This is simply NOT TRUE and I think we would all be better off if we were more open and honest about this instead of being intentionally deceitful gatekeepers who spew FUD to confuse outsiders.

Allow me to start things off with some open, honest discussion on this subject.

• ~1 million Americans are living with MS — roughly double the old estimate.
• MS prevalence is increasing, not disappearing. The latest Atlas of MS estimates 3.1 million people worldwide, up from ~1.8 million in 2013.
• Someone is diagnosed with MS about every 5 minutes worldwide.
• There is still no cure. We have increasingly effective treatments, but treating a disease and curing it are, apparently, two different things.
• In the U.S. alone, MS carries an estimated $85+ BILLION annual economic burden.

So if MS is “dead,” someone should probably tell the 3.1 million people living with it, the newly diagnosed patients, neurologists, researchers, caregivers, and insurance companies spending tens of billions of dollars on it.

Progress against MS? Absolutely.
MS being “dead”? That would be news to MS.

If you'd like to actually help kill MS, see below. They take visa gift cards purchased in even multiples of $300 and probably earn 2.13% cashback.

👉 Donate to the National MS Society:
https://donate.nationalmssociety.org/

This quarter, due to the 5% Freedom category at restaurants, I find myself whipping out my Freedom card every day (I eat out every day since my kitchen in NYC is a piece of crap and doesn't even have a proper oven).

While most places, especially chains, don't care if you use a credit card for a $10 lunch, some small businesses (especially in NYC where rent is high and credit card fees eat into their profit margins) have put up significant credit card minimums. I find that this is especially common in restaurants.

It is illegal, and a violation of card networks' operating agreements, to have a credit card minimum that is higher than $10, per the Dodd-Frank Act (https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ203/html/PLAW-111publ203.htm - Page 124 STAT. 2073). Every time I've seen a credit card minimum that is $15, $20, or even higher (I've seen as high as $35), I gently remind them that if they accept credit cards, the "maximum minimum" that they can enforce is $10. If they still refuse, you can call Visa (or whoever your card network is - but NOT your bank) and file a complaint.

Because I'm obsessed with points and miles like all of you, I know that every $10 lunch this quarter gets me 1/240th of the way to a free night at the Grand Hyatt Santiago in Chile, 1/300th of the way to a free night at the Grand Hyatt Rio de Janeiro, or 1/500th of the way to the Park Hyatt Maldives. So I avoid paying in cash at all costs, even if it's just because swiping a credit card is far more convenient than carrying around cash and coins.

I know that this attitude of "filing a complaint if you won't accept my credit card" may seem hostile towards small business, who can struggle with credit card fees, but I'm of the opinion that it is not my problem to worry about their credit card fees. You give them your business- if the credit card fees are too high, they should take it up with the credit card company, raise their prices or stop taking credit cards.

TLDR: It is illegal to have a credit card minimum over $10.

We have just completed a vote in which many 3rd party websites which have proven themselves extremely helpful to the subreddit were voted on to determine whether or not we would allow a simple link to their site be provided. In the same vote, many folks seemed to want to not even allow referrals which help nobody other than the users of this subreddit. Now, we have a stickied post about a CEO of a company coming here to do an AMA and effectively advertise their product via AMA. An advertisement to let you know that the advertisement is coming...

CEOs of companies don't do AMAs for shits and giggles. It is advertisement and nothing more. Regardless of whether or not one believes stuff like this generates extra attention, this should not be allowed here.

For a while, it had been creeping up on me that I wanted us to take more trips, and nicer trips, and to fly in biz class when we took those trips. We weren't completely stupid, but we had various cards earning different miles and points. Whenever we wanted to travel, we had a bunch of inflexible uncombinable miles and points and we never had enough of them to redeem anything.

So I wanted to figure out the right platform to us earn a pile of points on, and that's when I started all this, back in May. I'm not embarrassed -- I started on the Points Guy, because, you know, that shit's accessible to a noob. I decided on Chase UR, because of course I did, and now all our cards earn those. Done, right? No. Now I have Churner's Disease. I know this because I was in Chinatown on a Sunday morning waiting for a fucking Chase bank to open.

I thought was all done once I'd found my cards, but I kept wanting to decode everything. Here's my unsolicited take on what I've figured out, in case anyone cares.

• This credit card shit is not worth doing if you're not either a) organized or b) compulsively interested. Ideally you're both.

• I reject the "it's not a sprint, it's a marathon" maxim. It can be either -- it just depends on what you want. Also, I would never run a marathon. I'm tired just thinking about it.

• Meaning, one size does not fit all. Your goals are gonna be different than someone else's. I primarily just wanted to get the most out of my everyday spending. You might want every signup bonus that there ever was. Also, it depends on how much work you wanna do -- some people are gonna figure out how many 5X gift cards they can buy at Staples or buy shit through merchants through a rewards portal to earn more points, but that's more than I want to deal with. Remembering to use MPX for Amazon and movies is enough for me. So depending on what you want in the end and how much work you want to do for it, your approach is gonna be different.

• First and foremost, what card you earn on depends on what airline is convenient for you to fly on a regular basis. If United and Southwest are not at your airport, UR are gonna be a lot less magical.

• But some points are better than others if all things are even. UR are the best points because you can earn them right fast even if you only ever use a CFU and keep a CSR (or CSP or Ink+) in the drawer, and they're legitimately valuable as transferrable currency, travel cash, or actual cash -- way more so that any other card. Like there's no comparison. And they're freely combinable without any issue. They're just the most flexible shit.

• But if you never fly United, then you might want SPG, or you might want Amex MR. I can't figure out why anyone would want to earn ThankYou apart from a signup bonus.

• AA is now dogshit across the spectrum. Holy shit that was fast. I wouldn't even consider the dumb AA Exec card because fuck that airline. Though I will save a kind word for them because they waived the change fee when my mom was unwell and couldn't take her flight. (I thought Doug would personally say fuck off.) Anyway, they used to be my fave years ago, but now I like United, because their rewards are very rewarding and I like that they have an Econ+ subscription. I know people love Delta and everything but you just can't fucking win on their domestic rewards, just like you can't with Southwest or jetBlue. The miles aren't valueless, but you can't super score relative to the cash price on domestic tickets like you can on United. I don't expect United to keep their simple award chart forever, but for the time being its existence and the Economy Plus subscription and knowing I can PC to the MPC card as an alternative to Silver status if I don't make it keep me somewhat loyal to them. If they fuck it all up it's free agency for me, because fuck Delta, and double fuck AA.

• I know some here hate the bloggers, but fuck it, they have good info. I like Points Guy because it's breezy and easy, and OMAAT because it's friendly and he goes to interesting places, and particularly View From The Wing because he's a perv and has an attitude and has good analysis sometimes, and particularly Doctor of Credit because it's just every fucking deal in town. I scored 75K MR on my second BGR only two weeks after closing the first because I read that blog daily. Yes I know he got the info from here. I read here too. It can be a mess, though, I mean have you looked at it? Anyway, I also like Travel Codex, because it has good and original insight, and Million Mile Secrets because it goes deep into tricks (even if the writing style is ridiculous), and every now and then I look at boarding area to see what's up on other blogs. I can't fucking deal with FlyerTalk. I'm sorry. It's even more dense than here. I sometimes like things predigested and analyzed, you know? I'm not tough like you.

• I'm watching an amazing Jess Franco movie on Bizarre TV called Female Vampire from the mid 70's. Nothing is happening but Lina Romay is just naked through the whole thing and I am not complaining at all.

• I think it's shit stupid to earn miles on a single card for a single airline. Like I get it for collecting a signup bonus. I don't for everyday spend. Why earn at an endpoint?

• I also don't believe in diversification. I specificially consolidated, rather than diversified. Yes, I get that you don't want to put all your dumb point eggs in one basket because tomorrow Chase or whoever you earn with could decide that the points are only redeemable for gravel, but fuck all that. I want to earn and I want to fly and I want to have enough points to do it with my lady and that ain't gonna happen if our points are spread out all over god's plastic acre. I mean maybe if I had more points than I know what to ever do with then sure I can earn some other kind of points for shiggles, but I ain't there, and I don't really plan to be because I want to use those things.

• I've only been doing this four months. I want to carry three cards in my wallet: shared/couple card (CSR), individual card (CFU), biz card (another CSR, with nail polish on it). Ink+ stays in the drawer but gets 5X on telecom utilis. I sometimes temporarily replace the CFU with a new card that I'm working towards meeting a minimum spend on. But anyway, all my every day cards earn UR, because UR. Also, I fly out of Newark all the time and it's United country over there, so this is all obvious.

• With that said, it's fine to have specialty cards for specialty purposes. If you stay in a hotel for more than four nights twice a year, then even the newly eviscerated Citi Prestige is a no-brainer. If your home or frequently traveled-to airport has a Centurion lounge and the concierge can get you hookers/gigolos or whatever, then sure, Amex Plat might make sense. But for fuck's sake, don't put everyday spend on either of those cards, because fuckin points, how do they work? Not very well on those, Henry.

• Figure out where you spend your money so you can max out correctly. I don't drive. I take taxis and subways and I never cook food. So the CSR/CSP was pretty much made for me, I live in category world all the time. But if you're all in on gas and shopping and you can live with MR instead of UR (which I'm not sure I could), then you get an Everyday Preferred and maybe a PRG (or maybe not) and earn, earn, earn.

• Plastiq is a fucking no brainer for picking up signup bonuses if they're high enough relative to min spend. Everything else is WAY too much work. You'll have to decide if $20 to collect 30K B6 points or $125 to collect 75K MR is worth it, but if you actually have a plan for using those points, I don't see how it isn't. Amazon GC is also a good way to go, especially through MPX, if you buy shit at Amazon, which I sure do.

• Signup bonuses are well good and fine and you might want to score as many as you can so then you can give it all a rest for 5/24's sake, but personally I'm like not worrying about shit unless a) some it never ever happens deal comes along (like the 75K first year free repeat BGR) or b) I can actually use some specific airline's or hotel's miles as part of my travel planning. We're going to the Carribean next, and jetBlue is the only airline that flies nonstop to where we want to go (Curaçao.). So I got a jetBlue Plus card, and a jetBlue biz card. Why the fuck not? There's no law. But I wasn't going to just spend $198 for some jetBlue points for a rainy day. Same goes for the Ritz card. I want that bitch just so that I can strengthen my biceps, but until I have a specific plan to stay three nights in a Ritz somewhere, eh. If the deal goes away, the deal goes away. There will be more deals. Or there won't. Whatever.

• I have not yet figured out how to really make hotels work for me. That is the next thing. I'm hardly a pro at the air redemptions, either, but I feel like I know some shit now and I'm ready to play. Hotels I can't figure out how to get good value from points. Working on it.

• The people on this subreddit are fucking great. Except for the stupid ones, but I have hopes that they will become great someday. Thanks everyone.

• All "travel back" cards suck, e.g. Arrival+, Venture, Flex Perks, etc etc. Fuck those cards. I mean sure, take their signup bonuses if the yield is high enough to make it worth your while but don't keep them. If you can get a CSR and an FU you can do better than those cards even just for travel back.

• I am always exceedingly polite, respectful, friendly, and funny to the recon people. I always catch their name and introduce myself formally and say hello and explain the purpose of my call, like I'm calling to help them answer questions, make their day easier, rather than begging them for a fucking tool to help me mindlessly fuel the great heartless machine of capitalism. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Every recon agent I've spoken to has been at least reasonably if not exceptionally nice, and no one has ever turned me down. (Of course, now I'm over 5/24 so that's all about to change.)

• I put reminders on my calendar when AF is due on various cards. I do not want to miss a step in my dance with the devil.

• If you think my comments here are facile and stupid and wrong and for noobs and don't belong here and I'm ugly and spoil everything for everyone and why so long and I should gtfo and diaf, that's nice.

• I have a blog at about this shit at ivanx.nyc that's gotten stale because I don't have readers for it, and really it's written for busy professionals who just want smart rewards and shitty attitude, not hardcore churners looking to hack the system and fuck the man and win the game and spend all their waking hours working every angle. So I don't post shit about whatever the jerkoff du jour is for the US Bank World Flex Personal Platinum Choice Rewards Travel card or whatever. I'm just saying the same shit I am in this post, with more words (!) and pretention. But if you actually like it, post a comment over there or here or somewhere because I might keep writing it if I feel like I'm not pissing into the ocean.

• I'm sure I've forgotten a bunch of shit that will occur to me later, but if this post is well received, I'll update it with more amazingly trenchant insights you didn't ask for.

• Are you actually still reading this? Shouldn't you be applying for a credit card or something?

edit: I love how half the responses are people adding to the "joke" and the other half are people taking this entire thing seriously

I feel like this community is probably the only group that would understand this, and given the lax rules this week here goes nothing.

Walked into a brick and mortar US Bank today to open a few more accounts for some sweet CC funding as I usually do every few months. As I was waiting for a banker I saw another gentleman getting helped and sitting on the table was a literal binder of credit cards, kind of like the ones all the trading card collectors have. "Gotta be another churner" I thought to myself.

Anyways, I got escorted to another banker's cubicle and starting filling out the applications. Halfway through, as is customary, the banker had to go photocopy my identification, so I asked if I could use the bathroom in the meantime. This bathroom has a 2 stall, 3 urinal set up. All were open so I took the urinal to the right. Lo and behold Mr. Churner walks in right after I start pissing and yes, you guessed it - he took the MIDDLE urinal. To boot he was probably 6' 7" so the man was looming over me but before I get carried away, no, this isn't the point of post.

I finish up and go wash my hands and he joins me shortly afterwards. What I saw next was honestly a first for me. Maybe a first for mankind. Never in my life have I witnessed this. He's about to wash his hands, and before wetting them with water he squirts a bit of soap out and starts rubbing his DRY hands with soap.

I was so distraught I walked out of the bathroom and immediately left the branch. I'm on the bus right now writing this and realize that I left everything including my birth certificate with the banker to photo copy so now I have to haul ass and go back tail between my legs.

WHO PUTS THE SOAP ON FIRST?

You can understand my confusion.

I know that it is probably easy to point to the Why you should not churn guide, but it's an interesting idea because forces to think outside the box a little.

I had some friends who were flying around for interviews after college and it would have been great to have prepared them for that.

Friend about to start a long distance relationship and he churns, which makes it less painful.

I got home today and found this envelope in the mail.

:D

I opened it and found this wonderful offer.

ಠ__ಠ

I didn't see this posted on /r/churning yet (apologies if I missed it). The Discover It Q4 categories are available for activation. The categories are Amazon and Target. Enjoy!

This has been an interesting week to say the least. I think we've uncovered some interesting ideas and some pent up frustration on both sides of the "What should this sub be" fence.

And I hope that from that we can emerge a better and stronger sub, taking some good new ideas and continuing some old rules.

In the regular Discussion thread, there will always be people who are new or don't understand the rules and will ask questions.

The way in which we reply to those questions is abhorrent. People reply with such toxicity and vile; to people who either don't know or don't understand the rules.

In the same way that when Traveling abroad and a foreigner, we would hope that locals would help us and treat us with respect; We must do to those who are new/don't understand here.

So I'm proposing a standard community written reply One that would be replied to each question, one that is free from vitriol and toxicity and directs the poster to the appropriate thread.

Example of a rough idea:

Q: Can I get two Sapphire cards at the same time:

A: Thank you for your comment, however this is not the correct thread to post this question. This thread is for discussion of current events and trends. Please see the Daily Question thread and re-post your question their. Continuing to post questions in the Daily Discussion thread is disruptive to the community and may have consequences.

But I do think that people should be warned, that continuing to do so will result in consequences.

By standardizing our replies I think we'll form a less hostile and more welcoming community.

I worry about our toxicity and hostile behavior; we all started somewhere, we all need to follow the rules. Both of those statements are true and require understanding and friendliness.

TL;DR: We need to write a standard non-hostile reply to those who mistakingly post questions in the DD.

Looks like the rule is applied already.. This is what happened..

After reading the post here on the rule, I converted my citi premier to prestige…. As within the same day we received another news that it is not enforced, I applied for prestige and planned to cancel the upgrade but I am yet to do that.

However today I received the welcome letter for the new card(not the card) which doesn’t have the bonus language. I immediately called the Customer service and the CSR initially told I did not get the bonus language because I opened AA card recently… After some push back she put me on hold for 5 minutes and said since i received bonus for Premier last year the bonus was not attached to my account..

I am entirely not sure whether the rule is already enforced or I messed it by upgrading the card…. Has anyone applied with the new language and have the bonus attached to the account?

I know this is an awful deal, just thought I'd share incase some churners have so cash to throw. https://www.bankofthewest.com/premier.html

I casually read this subreddit, and I consistently see people in here referring to signing up for credit cards to get a signup bonus as "churning". This is not churning. It's just signing up for credit cards. Churning is specifically signing up for the same credit card over and over and repeatedly getting the bonus. This is distinct from just signing up for a credit card, an app-o-rama, etc.

The reason this is important is the new people to this game are getting different definitions than the experienced ones. When these new people eventually move to Flyertalk or similar sites, as I see many of them do, they're speaking a different language, which causes confusion and frustration to both sides.

I'm not exactly sure I understood what made it appeal to millenials. In some recent discussion here, we've talked about how basically we've seen a lot more CSRs in the wild than other cards, and I'm just wondering what about it in particular made it "the" card for millenials, who are likely making suboptimal redemptions and aren't serial churners by any means. How did Chase manage to develop a cult of personality out of a $450 card?

Curiosity as to what people are rocking these days.

Me: CF - Gas Hilton Biz - Groceries Amex Biz Plat - MSR Amex BBP - All non Cat

Next: CIP, Hyatt, and Amex Biz Gold.