so context my friends play League of legends and i tried to play 1 game as mid with simple hero named Fizz

as my friend say the match mmr on that is somewhere Legend (Platinum elo in league) so i should expect them to be decent in game

i used to play on season 2 and switch dota after 2 weeks

so whole time my friend just taught me the spells does and teach me what to build and nothing else.

Things i find really weird (i watch some of my friends games too after so i could see if this is one time thing or not)

1. people on that elo has the most basic lane manipulation you could get

2. people are so predictable that you are about to get ganked as they really are passive on laning and start going aggro and deep and when they harassed its just same aggro but they retreat asap

3. some common macros are not so quite common in their such as go home if you are low health or tank the turret damage a little so you're jungler and other can dive in.

4. they won't do unpredictable initiation even you guys got advantage, their main response is Retreat.

5.botlane is just whoever push the first minion wave and teleport back to Base wins the early laning phase

6. people really save their flash(small range blink dagger with cooldown of 5 mins or so) for the escape and barely use it on initiation

and so on

what i'm trying to say is league is more like arcade one shotty moba. all of casting spells are easy to react on which is easy to dodge on. and some common fundamentals of Moba are not quiet common in this game.

as much as iwanna give league a try, its just a pre dota 2 warm up

no wonder league players going to DOTA 2 is having hard time and have higher chance of quitting the game early.

This patch has made offlane so fucking boring, it literally does NOT matter how well you fuck up their safelane, the enemy carry will just have unlimited farm for the rest of the game.

You can literally climb to immortal as a carry player having ZERO mechanical skill, losing lane every single game, as long as you can just farm efficiently around the map. What a ridiculously stupid concept completely devoid of any skill.

Background: tested in divine and 7k immortal.

Note: there's still some kinks needs to iron out but I think the general item build is figured out.

Early game: wraith band -> yasha -> crystal for maximum farming speed. However, this build is god awful at joining teamfight. This means you will be absent from any fights until min 25+ which is really bad. This is something I'm still trying to figure out.

Mid game: diffusal + agh + manta + crystal. with these 4 items you should be able to do some pick offs and dmgs in teamfight. At this point, PL still feel a bit nerfed from last patch.

Late game (35 mins+): diff + agh + manta + nullifier / bloodthorn + daedalus. This is the highest dmg combo PL can ever get. with +6% illusion damage, you can do 2200~ dps on dummy with only right click (no manta, no q), if you picked bloodthorn, this number goes to ~2500. In comparison, this is what clinkz can achieve with q active and 4 extra skeleton. Note that you should always get nullifier / orchid before completing the crystal since crystal -> daedalus roughly have same gold as orchid or sacred relic. Nullifier / orchid will allow pl do shits he won't able to do before (such as killing support with glimmer without carrying a stupid dust) but daedalus is just a glorified crystalys

Hyper late game (40mins+): disperser + agh (consumed) + manta + power tread + nullfiier + bloodthorn + daedalus. With +15% armaments pl can achieve 450 base dmg and can deal 4200+ damage per second to dummy (or 1000+ dps to a 30 armor agi core) right click dmg without activate any item. At this stage PL is absolutely stronger than pre 7.37. I think it's around 30% stronger since now your damage is no longer dependent on bloodthorn. Nullfier and Daedalus is a must since these 2 are the highest cost to damage ratio item in the game.

Pre 7.37 patch Pl doesn't really want to pick up double damage rune just because mediocre base damage and it reveal the real PL. Now PL is literally the best double damage rune carrier in the game. If you see it pass 35 mins, pick it up. Since PL only has base damage, dd rune will literally double the damage from every item. (imagine daedalus now gives 166 dmg :) ).

Side note: quelling blade on pl is bugged as it provides no additional damage to creep. So maybe starting item would be a wraith band + tango then ship couple iron branches.

C'mon.

Not trying to play and then saying "calm down it's unranked" is crap. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Stop using it as some sort of catch phrase. It doesn't make you smart or funny. It just makes you a dick.

I understand that some people like to play unranked to practice heroes, or try new ideas. These things are fine and expected. But not trying to play because you're losing and it's unranked is complete bullshit and you're ruining the game for everyone else. I know that you don't care. You said 'calm down it's unranked'. You're already planning to use your wit to craft an original 'calm down it's unranked' reply to this post. You probably did it before even reading this.

Honestly though I'd like to know how common of a mindset is this? I don't play ranked at all. I find the games shitier and full of angry people But for me, and presumably at least one other person, maybe more, unranked is the game. We play for fun and an MMR is meaningless.

Please don't ruin the games for us because you're losing and calm down it's unranked.

Thank you.

Ok thanks to everyone who says I'm an idiot for wishing people would try their best. You win. No more replies from me.

It's not that I don't like them, but it feels like a single player game. I don't communicate with anyone and there's no teamwork kind of spirit at all anymore.

I just realized after playing this week and something was just seriously missing and I just realized what it was. I love team-based competitive games because of the strategy and banter, but this is just completely opposite of that.

Just in case anyone else was in the same shoes, wondering what's missing.

Most of them are utter dogshit and the ones who know how to play well usually climb ranks really fast. I’ve recently had a pos 4 hoodwink(I was playing axe 3), who didn’t understand shit about the game, yet acted like the victim until her cores won it. By “cores” I literally mean me, the mid sniper, and the afk farm anti mage who managed to split push 1 t3 tower+racks in the 66 minutes the game lasted, supports had 0 impact on the win. Our pos 5 wasn’t good but at least he wasn’t such a bitch and didn’t go gleipnir->daedalus. We also played against a booster/smurf carry sven with 14 wins in a row.

Here are some things I learned from the dota genius.

1. You have 250 games on the hero? Shut the fuck up, I am support so I am smarter and I know better what u need to do.

2. When i got my vanguard and started farming behind the tower I was a bitch due to stealing my poor fucking pos 4’s xp while doing it. No, it’s not that I am fully self sustainable with 500 gpm on minute 5 and the pos 4 should fuck off and roam, no. I am stealing experience while also giving the enemy easier farm.

3. Item timings? Your hero needs certain items to reach his spike? What the fuck are you talking about? Who fucking cares if you don’t have your blink yet or are literally 300 gold away from blade mail? Go and fight! Go help me save my stupid ass getting caught out of position.

4. My job is to make their pos 1 not farm at any given point in the game even if all other positions in my team are behind. Support ping enemy carry items. Look! Sven has PT MoM Sabre minute 16. You had VG Blink BM minute 13 and killed Sven twice in lane? Who the fuck cares, why does he have more than brown boots? Sven caught up on minute 30 cause you are in a worse position after a few teamfights? Again, who cares? Go somehow disrupt a 0/2 afk farmer’s freefarm.

5. I am the initiator so I should jump on literally any first target I see in the fight. Is it a fucking front line solo standing undying who is clearly baiting us? Jump him you cunt. Wait, you waited for another 8 seconds to jump on the enemy carry sven who revealed himself nearby the creepwave and solo kill him winning the fight? What a piece of shit you are, Imma report u and whine the whole game about my “initiator” not “initiating”.

6. Initiate good fights? What? If my stupid support ass gets caught out of position in the middle of nowhere, your job is to jump in and kill yourself so I get a chance at surviving. Initiate the 3v5 fight by dying in a matter of seconds! That’s what you gotta do.

7. Having buyback on minute 45? Yeah of course you have it, you’re a fucking rich core afk farming, my support ass can’t afford it cause I’m too busy buying gleipnir+daedalus.

8. Your axe called 3 heroes in the last fight and called 3 more after buybacks? The axe stil should’ve done much better(the poor pos 4 hoodwink died). We teamwiped twice and destroyed the ancient after? Stfu, I died, you killed 6 heroes instead of killing yourself and our chance at winning the game to save my life, such a twat.

I have sadly probably forgotten even more interesting facts about how I should really play.

What annoys me the most are that people like these actually exist, believing that they are absolute saints due to playing a support position. I have just given you an example of an absolutely exceptional twat, but a huge percentage of support players behave like that.

The funniest part it that the same hoodwink player could probably go post shit on reddit about getting such a bad axe and carrying him for an hour straight while getting 3k upvotes and tons of people supporting him in the fight against bad and “oppressive” core players.

Hey, I'm a 10k player who's running Support Heaven channel, and today I'm talking about Largo, new hero - who I believe is strongest hero released as support in DotA. The guide includes item and skill builds, explains what is important on this hero and how to use him with good results. Enjoy!

Every game is just filled with tanky teamfight heroes like BB, Undying, UL, Necro. Teams just smash face against each other for the first 20 mins and the outcome is basically determined through that.

Feels like any macro strategy in the game is just gone. Avoiding fights doesn't really help as farming neutrals puts you behind.

It's just smash each other and see who wins. No patience anymore to dota.

Well, actually I tried Dota quite earlier, like in 2018, but played 1 or 2 games and really hated it. After that was playing randomly 2-3 games per month with friends in turbo with KDA 0/15/2 or something. So one of my friends invited me to try it again seriously in last August. I passed the calibration and got 200 mmr approx. And very soon got down to 1 MMR. Got 2k solo and now playing with some friends achieved 3k. My aim is 5k by the end of the August!

My best position is 1. Favorite heroes (all for pos1) - Hoodwink (yes) winrate 62%, Riki winrate 68% and Drow Ranger winrate 57%

So last night had an offlane SF with 5 wins in a row instalock SF offlane, tried playing it and he did well early game, but their offlaner (axe) got his items and actually played the game and shut him down. Then he starts flaming us bc we suck , yada yada, etc. the usual.

The SF offlane proceeds to play carry and take every bit of safe farm and we just kinda sit back and defend the other lanes, trying to do what we can. I ping tormentor so we can take it right at 20 mins, but the SF can't be bothered to walk over to tormentor from triangle, so me and the carry decide to end up killing ourselves taking it, bc we are already done with this game.

Then when the enemy is inevitably sieging our HG, I just sit back and 'wait the initiation' which never came. I walk up to astral 1 hero and insta die and then they go fight.

What goes through the minds of these players who play carry from offlane, I guess he thought since he won 5 games in a row he was 'goated' but when you encounter an actual team that has a REAL offlaner, you definitely see the difference.

So basically his SF offlane thing only works when the enemy is bad or someone else on the team can take over the 'initiating' role. I picked 2nd round and our carry didn't fill the initiating role.

Is it our fault for not picking an initiator, or is it his fault for picking SF offlane and expecting us to fill in the 'offlaner role' while he free-farms as carry?

I really didn't care about the MMR as much as I cared about showing him that the game was super weird and not fun for anyone but the other team

Over the last 2/3 weeks I've encountered nothing but never unwinnable games. I must all and play since joining this sub.

Gone from 2600 to around 1950

By unwinnable I mean that 1 or 2 indivials have just decided that the game will not be won and it's simply that. I thought that focusing on myself was the answer as this sub suggests and improving my gameplay would be my priority.

My most recent game about 20 minutes ago represents about 80% of my games over the last 3 weeks.

Match ID: 7977648969 - Jug jungle

Can someone please take a look and tell me that this is normal to encounter in 5/6 games?

I know that I can only effect my own gameplay but I'm going insane and it's starting to feel like the least important part of winning is my own gameplay, it apparently makes no difference.

Over the last 3 weeks my team's don't take objectives, even when we're winning.

Every team fight won results in a mid push thats overextended into buybacks.

A rapier purchase at 30 minutes that is immediately lost and resulting in a loss.

I know people claim this "happens, but is this really normal?

At some point I bottom out at 1700 then have a metoric rise back up to around 2600/2700 MMR, at which I'm back to being griefed into oblivion.

(I'm using the Match ID's above as an extremely comming example to show you exactly what I'm talking about)

Frankly it's just boring, so I'm willing to take any and all advice.

So this is going to be pretty ranty in nature because I'm writing this while dead in my 4th game in a row of having a 4 that griefs my lane and subsequently game, but it is what it is, if you want to get better at 4, this is for you

First of all, and I can't believe I actually have to say this, but, YOU ARE A SUPPORT AND YOUR OFFLANER IS A CORE, this means you are partly responsible for playing the lane properly and getting your offlaner off to a good start to enable them to not be liability going into the midgame by picking a hero that can meaningfully contribute in lane, doing things like contesting the pull camp (from minute 1, spend 50 of your starting gold on a sentry), securing range creeps, trading with the enemy support, stacking camps etc.

You also cannot leave your offlaner to just fend for themselves for forever, leaving to contest the 6 minute rune, or using gate to gank or whatever is totally fine, I even encourage it, BUT YOU NEED TO COME BACK AFTER. If you leave for too long, especially if the enemy team has heroes with real kill potential, like jugg, ursa, weaver, etc., there are only two outcomes, either your offlaner dies trying to get farm, or they are forced out of lane and have to settle for jungling. If you stacked triangle for them earlier, it's not so much settling as getting a big injection of fairly safe xp and gold while your support is off doing something else, hint hint.

Another thing that annoys the fuck out of me is when my support fucks up my creep drag. If your offlaner is dragging creeps (this is something dark seer in particular likes to do), do not fuck it up for them. They probably have a plan in mind with the creep drag. Do not go there and aggro the creeps off of them, this is likely to mess something up. Just try to keep the enemy team off your offlaner as much as you can without pulling the creeps off them.

Being a support also means that your role is typically one to help and/or enable your team, not doing damage. You do this by getting items like eul, force staff, glimmer, even aether lens. You do not do this by buying things like maelstrom, dagon or kaya as you first item.

So basically, if you're the kind of player to pick WR 4 and go brown boots into maelstrom into crit while doing little to nothing of what could be considered supporting and just completely abandoning lane at level 4 to never return, fuck you

I tried Maelstrom on Dusa and man it is night and day for farm speed compared to Manta. I do go Manta after Maelstrom now. Maybe my farming patterns are off when I go Manta but with Maelstrom I'm able to clear camps with ease. Why does almost every guide say to rush Manta?

First of all, this will going to be pretty long, there's a TL;DR at below, so feel free to skip if You don't want to read the entire content. I'll appreciate if you read the entire content though

I'm a Divine3(5320MMR) Pos5 Player and one of My colleague who has recently started playing DOTA asked me how long did i take to get to my MMR? Because He find it pretty much impossible to get out from his "low MMR trench".

I've been giving him constructive advice for some times like how macro management is important in dota, how to draft/common strategies and lane controlling techniques. And He mainly played pos 5 because most of the heroes I've guided him were roamer/hard supports.

However, his MMR has been stuck for the past 3monthes and He asked me trying to play his account and so I did. I've only played 5 games because I didn't want to ruin too many people's gaming experience ,also , didn't want him to get "boosted" only for him to ruin the games for other players in the future.

As for the result, I've won 4 out of 5 games and I'm going to evaluate each games below.(names and match IDs are hidden for privacy purposes)

Although I am a pos5 player, I was pretty confidence with winning against Crusaders/archons/guardians, so I've 1st picked mid all 5 games.

Game1 Necro-Won

/img/va0gs6b24p811.png

I was amazed because Pudge and ES on my team was playing Pos 4 and 5 accordingly, thought low MMR games aren't bad at all.

Crushed the sniper mid, 15minutes veil radiance into a complete snow ball.

However, the draft is absolutely terrible(Sven/Morph in a same team, 2 melee supps).

Wait a moment, take a look at enemy's draft. It was an offlane invo,PL, Mid Sniper and Safelane DK Mirana. No concept of position, synergy and counterpick . No support, they did not even have a courier in the beginning of the game.

Game2 QoP- Lost

/img/kz95hnq54p811.png

So After playing a relatively decent game(at least on my team), I thought these players aren't too bad at all and tried to do something extraordinary for fun(Radiance QoP).

The Draft of Radiant side is absolute garbage(4cores+1techies) and the draft on dire side looks REALLY good, something that I see in my original MMR games(QoP mid, Bane 5 Riki4 Morph Carry Mirana Off)

The Game was a complete disaster, the moment the game started, both side lanes were constantly feeding NONSTOP, despite me shutting down the OD by having a 5 level advantage(I was level11 when OD was 6). I had to constantly gank side lanes to cover My team's ass and couldn't focus too much on my farming.

I've ended up doing more damage than the total damage of 4of my other team mates, tried EVERY SINGLE THING I could to win the game but the game couldn't be won. Why? Because no matter how many kills you get, QoP can't siege for nuts.

Take a look at Riki and Bane's item, and last hits on the each side. Dire team had no concept of position, everyone just farmed whatever they see infront of them, Bane rushing maelstorm as a 1st item with a brown boot although he was purchasing some wards, riki was farming in the jungle, morph had completely no idea to play his hero(Did not know attribute shift STR would heal him) , Mirana doing completely nothing but farming in the jungle.

After experiencing this game, I've realized that playing in this bracket is all about "team luck", unless you are EXCEPTIONALLY good enough to completely CRUSH your lane, there's no way on earth you can get a constant +55% Win rate(relatively good number to "Climb" in MMR). I am almost 3000MMR above this average and I've tried so hard, yet the game couldn't be won(although my build was kinda trollish)

Also, I've realized to constantly win in this bracket without relying on anyone(yes, no one but yourself), You HAVE to pick a snowbally hero that can SIEGE

Blood Seeker is a complete beast in this bracket, People walks while ruptured, doesn't carry TP, doesn't know how the thirst works. Hence I've decided to play blood seeker for the rest of my 3 games.

3Games of Blood Seeker all Won

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/img/zoeogk994p811.png

/img/gb6lyk994p811.png

All3 games won single handedly, average of 10minutes radiance into a complete snowball.

What shocked me to the ground was among these 3 games(total of 27 unique player beside me), In both side, 0 Supports were picked and all 3 games were 5 cores vs 5cores(1st game was 2mid, the huskar gave me headache). this is NOT DOTA , it's more like "pickcarryandfarmandgetitemsandkill" , 0 strategies, 0 concept, 0 game plan, 0 ,0,0,0 NOTHING was literally there.

The Only reason I was able to crush all of the games were because I was EXCEPTIONALLY BETTER, than these players, once again, i'm more than 3000 MMR higher than these players.

Imagine if you are an average/slightly better player in this game, there's no way you can constantly win under this kind of environment, even if you're the person who spam 1 HERO to get consistent performance, it will take a LONG TIME. 2carries in each lane contesting for last hits, 0 wards, 0 communication, again, this is NOT DOTA.

Conclusion

Players in this bracket have literally no idea how to play DOTA, and if YOU are in this bracket(due to calibrating when you was a complete beginner), and now wants to improve, have some knowledge , constantly watching pro replays and learning strategies/ basics. Bad news for You, It won't work. The only way you can climb out from this hell is to get an exceptionally better mechanical skill and crush the game completely alone.

However, playing in this bracket does not give you any sort of micro/macro management/mechanical skill because the quality of the game is just too trash.

Think of this as an archery, People practice to get better precision by moving the target further and further, however, in this bracket, the target is literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR NOSE and there is a WALL behind you, no room of improvement can be found here.

No strategy, no positioning, its all about hoping to god that your 5x carry line up has better laning affinity than the enemy's.

You can't rely on ANYONE , and there's no point supporting these players because no one knows how to push, 5x cores are actually BETTER than having a pos4 and 5 in this bracket.

It is the cold truth but beginners playing 1000 games in this environment doesn't bring them anywhere, in fact, it makes them hate this game and move on to another game. DOTA is a beautiful game and its such a shame, I thought i was going crazy when playing these 5 games.

So If you're the person who currently in this bracket, but REALLY want to improve, don't hesitate to create a new account, calibrate it on somewhere around high 2k~3kish(thanks to anti smurf system, anyone besides a complete beginner can calibrate around there) , buy a battle pass, join roled rank queue and actually start improving.

You will definitely lose more games than you win post calibration and probably gonna lose few hundred MMR, but trust me, playing 10 3k games makes you a better player than playing 1000 games in this trash hole.

Yes if you are exceptionally good player than you won't have hard time climbing out from that bracket, but sadly, it is quite not feasible for a player who plays in that bracket to get what it takes to get out. Unless, you are whiling to spend months and years inefficiently.

TL;DR

Trench do exist, if you're someone who is currently playing here and sick and tired of dota, abandon that account and create a new one.

Yes, if your skill is like above +1.5k~ the your MMR there and exceptionally better than the others, just pick a core that can siege and win most of the games. But it's not rationale to grind in that shit hole until you become competent in doing that.

Too bad you can't Git gud playing 1000 games here.

This is a repost of a thread I've made 3monthes back, this friend of mine had made himself a new account, calibrated at Legend 2 and Now he's Legend 4 .After being stuck in guardian/crusader playing Pos5 for half a year

Bruv i lost 2 games in a row for sand king because sand storm is too OP with million stuns and big a*s area. Is it too OP at the moment?

It never happened to me before (500+ games with all mute in settings. I only unmute when the game is in desperate measures) but I wanted to take a general break from SEA so I got on US west for a game. Noticed something wrong with our mid invoker at min 30 ish so I turned on chat, turns out he threw a massive fit and shadow amuleted because the pos3 (me) was farming lanes in silence while he was off 1v5ing over and over. He had monologued himself to defeat and had the most pissy attitude I've ever heard.

Does anyone have similar stories?

Edit: wanted to reemphasize the detail that I come from SEA, where half the time people don’t speak a common language and are thus primed to expect little communication other than the chat wheel. Nobody acts particularly enraged or pissy over not having a form of communication since it is not the norm to expect such. I’d also add that it is completely viable to win in silence and chat is massively overrated. If anything, there is a lot of wasteful communication that makes people focus on conversation quality and thus forget the task at hand (carry forgets to hit creep because he keeps talking, etc). I know this is something people in the US don’t like to hear, but petty retaliation over someone not being responsive to communication is more destructive to the game than adapting to the silent player. As someone that has played in the US while I was living there for an academic semester, I can confirm that 50% of your games falter to inefficiency or tunnel vision due to bad communication coming from someone that just wants to feel themselves on mic. Communication is key only if it’s the means to an end, but the reality is that most Americans are incapable of this because most people there suck at focusing on gameplay simultaneously. In other words, more games are lost through communication than you realize. Have it a thought.

I get it if you want to go medusa but for most other safe laners why ? You have the least impact early and most of the heros dont have that much of a hard counter from what I see because you can mostly itemize for each situation.

I legit dont understand. And pos5 and pos4 are supposed to be first, but both are more important to counter the enemy picks to make the lane easier.

And mid is one of the most important ones because is 1v1 and a bad matchup can fuck you up the most.

Do not queue on USE.

I've been doing a little experiment and the game quality on USW is far, far, far superior to USE. Not to mention, virtually noone speaks english on USE for some reason. I was SHOCKED last night when I finally got fed up with USE and queued USW only, and everyone on my team had an english looking name and we used voice chat to communicate. As someone who used to exclusively queue USE, this has NEVER happened to me not ONCE - since I started playing DOTA.

I'm estimating I'll probably gain 1500 mmr playing exactly the same as I've been playing on USE, but with actual teammates who are real human beings.

I am about to lose my mind. I'm low Crusader but I'm still getting people pick Muerta as hard support and going 0 - 12 by 30 minutes in meanwhile I'm 7 - 0 safe lane carry with about 80% of creeps last hit, doing everything I can with our mid to make up for their whole team getting free gold and xp. I have never ever come close to this kind of abysmal performance. Another time I was on a 13 game win streak coming up and then run into a viper support in offlane engaging the enemy with 25% health and going 0 - 7 in first 15 minutes.

For the most part I respect the pairings in the matchmaking and don't think it's too bad, but it's extremely frustrating getting paired with these god awful toxic players that belong in Herald. How do these guys sneak in? I'm just trying to play some fun competitive games. If I lose I want it to because we were outplayed not because it's 4v5 with 10 k free gold.

I decide to recalibrate and first game 2 people leave and we stay almost winning. Have all their barracks and graphs all the way in our direction, but a few dooms and perma-stuns and we lose the final fight. Deeper into the trench I go.

new ppl ask so many questions and worry about every detail. just play the game bro. play more games. lose more, win more. thats how u learn. not focusing on every small detail. That is true chad moment.

learn from ur opponents. learn from ur team-mates. Observe patterns u see across ur games when you play with/against certain heros. that will take u way farther than worrying about small stuff. understand the pace of the game and the different ways a game can be won.

everyone on a team plays better when they have space.