r/javascript • u/[deleted] • Sep 04 '16
Boycott Nodevember
And if you already have filed for a refund, please say so here. Intolerance shouldn't be tolerated, especially one that is founded on fabricated lies, and ridiculously sensitive standards of judgement.
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u/toiletjs Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
From the nodevember Slack chat log leak at http://pastebin.com/3mQc7DfG :
Josh Crews [10:00 AM]
if you make clear why he’s disinvited, i believe the issue will be over in 24 hours
[10:01]
if you don’t make it clear, it will be this cloud of tarnish on the conference for a while
HermitPy [10:01 AM]
I feel no cloud of tarnish
I hope "HermitPy" sees this thread and realizes that they were wrong.
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u/Reashu Sep 04 '16
HermitPy [10:00 AM]
All this whole thing has done is ensure that I won't do one more fucking thing for the community, so next year other people can run their own conference and pick their own shit and deal with it (edited)Well hey, something came out of it...
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u/r1ckd33zy Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 05 '16
Isn't that outburst from @HermitPy enough for getting him kicked-out of that group. I can imagine many of the shrinking violets in that chat getting "triggered" by his offensive use of the "F-word".
It is almost as if he is bullying the entire group.
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Sep 04 '16
No, you see, 'coz hypocrisy runs rife in the SJW communities......
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Sep 06 '16
HermitPy won't get kicked-out just yet, they are still some targets for the hypersensitive SJWs and HermitPY is pretty fast at complying, just a tweet or two and hey ho..
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u/expert-at-nothing Sep 09 '16
Is this the same girl from the nodebotanist video? "Let me tell you about how community works while completely ignoring the community"
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
Lol seems to be a theme:
I feel no cloud of tarnish
And:
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u/b_bellomo Sep 05 '16
Update: I’ve switched comments to ‘not visible.’ I won’t be reading them. I don’t feel the need to justify this, either. Thanks
In my saaaafe space
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Sep 05 '16
The military concluded that hypersensitivity like this was the primary motive behind many of the green on blue attacks in Afghanistan. http://theunitedwest.org/the-dod-ignores-the-root-cause-of-green-on-blue-attacks/
I don't have any tolerance for this bullshit in my kids (the youngest is 10). Adults who demonstrate this behavior deserve some amount of public hazing. Your sadness is not my problem.
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u/echolakeecho Sep 05 '16 edited Sep 05 '16
Logs don't have this part but it wasn't his decision to remove. Lots of drama between the organizers I'd imagine.
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u/rtpg Sep 05 '16
I agree with the reasoning, but really wish they had written out this explanation more in detail when making this initial announcement.
Now it's a bunch of people piecing together arguments from twitter. And that hasn't gone too great...
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u/toiletjs Sep 05 '16
If gonads and dogballs are the worst of his offenses, I completely disagree with their decision. If they want to keep their conference clean just a quick "Hey Doug, no anatomical jokes, ok?" is all they needed. If it's something more serious that would actually make a rational person feel unsafe, say so. They already opened pandora's box by discussing it on Twitter. It's too late to say "we have our reasons" and ignore people demanding justification.
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u/ahmadalfy Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
I swear I knew that the whole thing is a response to some Tumblrina with oppressed "FEELS" and gender identification troubles before looking into her profile.
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Sep 04 '16
TIL a new term: Tumblrina
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Sep 04 '16
Used frequently in /r/tumblrinaction
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u/dwcmwa Sep 05 '16
When I see occasional posts from that sub, I think to myself, most of these probably are fakes. These kinds of behaviour are too ridiculous to be happening in real life.
Then this Crockford thing happens.
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u/Otroletravaladna Sep 05 '16
It's not just Crockford.
It's Crockford, Tim Hunt, that Lyft driver from last week, Sam Hyde, and everywhere and anywhere where some self-entitled, self-righteous twats feel the need to publicly blame and shame others for their own skewed misinterpretations of somebody else's actions, intentions or statements.
"Oh, Crockford talked about 'huevos'. That's so sexist!". Seriously, fuck them.
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u/PotaToss Sep 05 '16
Step 1: Decide you're a victim.
Step 2: Scrape for evidence.
In fairness, the thing about huevos being tied to bravery is pretty pure sexism. But it's also the only fair criticism I've seen in this debacle.
When he compared trailing parens on IIFE's to being out there like a dog's balls, and people complained about that being sexist, I just couldn't take it seriously. "Someone mentioned balls!? I'm triggered!" It's ridiculous.
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u/Otroletravaladna Sep 05 '16
Except because the accompanying joke he used 10 minutes before the 'huevos', is about 'chicharrones', which have no double-entendre.
All of this because at the beginning of the talk he says you don't need to learn Haskell to understand monads, in the same way you don't need to be a qualified chef to make a burrito.
When you give context, the innuendos and sexism disappear.
The funny thing is that the moment Crockford becomes a target of their PC wrath, there's nothing he (or anybody, for that matter) could say to stay safe from their accusations.
"If you have the 'guts'..." -> "Oh, I don't identify myself as an animal, but as a plant. I don't have guts! You are being insensitive! I won't attend any conferences you attend to!!"
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u/ryosen Sep 05 '16
There's a reason why hiring managers and HR personnel dig through an applicant's social media profiles and it isn't in hopes of finding a photo of you with a beer. Any company that hires someone like this is opening themselves up to a lot of professional and PR liability.
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u/EelingSoGood Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
Here is a list of other Node JS conferences happening this year. Assuming would've-been-attendees are looking for another conference in the US:
I recommend Node.Js Interactive US (November 29th-December 2nd) for those who can afford it. Attending it is a big feather in your cap, and only costs around 50% more.
For those looking for a conference more in the pricerange (~$400) of Nodevember, Northeast Javascript conference (September 15-16) is probably the way to go. Compared to Nodevember, it has denser talks and is a better event in regard to making industry connections. As a nice extra it will probably cost you less to travel to.
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u/jasonlotito Sep 04 '16
Node.Js Interactive US is being held in Austin, TX. at the JW Marriott. The hotel is really nice, and inexpensive, especially if you are used to East/West Coast prices. But Austin is also really nice as well. Every City has a smell, and Austin's smell is BBQ.
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u/DarkMarmot Sep 05 '16
The one who instigated this was also calling for everyone to boycott Nodevember!
From her Twitter history:
@nexxylove:
If you value a community where diversity and inclusivity are top priorities, please boycott @nodevember. This is unacceptable.
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u/aikiku Sep 05 '16
diversity and inclusivity are top priorities
Rather ironic when ageism is rife in the industry and older developers are some of the most excluded. But sure @nexxylove, target the senior guys who's shoulders modern JS was built on, who such JS conferences wouldn't exist without, who's work YOUR job has been built on and make them feel excluded.
But that's what modern intersectional feminism has turned into. Ageism, sexism, racism, intolerance & divisiveness. This isn't about becoming better, bigger, warmer and more open hearted people. It's about nasty vindictiveness and spite, to find any possible excuse for offence.
What's more scary is that these people are now ending up in "developer relations" roles, that should be about drawing people in. Not burning the house down.
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u/b_bellomo Sep 05 '16 edited Sep 05 '16
I didn't even thought age could be an issue. Programming is one of the jobs where experience is the most valuable. You'd think Crockford deserves some respect from everyone using javascript professionally.
Fluo-haired kids claiming to be PC-artists-nerds-"fabulous unicorns", etc... succeeding in excluding older, renowned programmers ? This makes me sick.
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u/FurryFingers Sep 05 '16
I believe aikiku is talking about the ageism in the pursuit of gaining employment.
Experience is valuable, but try getting a job at 50 and you'll find something else happens.
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u/b_bellomo Sep 05 '16
try getting a job at 50 and you'll find something else happens.
I thought this was still a good age to land a job in IT. Wrong ?
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u/AcceptingHorseCock Sep 06 '16
"The Apple engineer who moved Mac to Intel applied to work at the Genius Bar in an Apple store and was rejected" (because he was too old)
HN discussion (since that's where I found the link yesterday): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12432079
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u/darkerside Sep 07 '16
This is a retail job, not an IT job. He wouldn't have gotten a job at Hollister at the mall either.
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u/FurryFingers Sep 08 '16
Might depend on where you are. There is a general belief that ageing people get less flexible, less willing to learn new things and slow down etc... I'd have to investigate further to really get a better idea of the state of affairs.
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Sep 05 '16
[deleted]
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Sep 06 '16
It's not true, it's some hypersensitive social justice warrior finding one more fault with the world.. How is one of two gender references actively hostile? I mean come on guys..
Crockford career won't be impacted, I dare say he's now widely popular again like back in 2008, a small vocal minority of SJWs might be raged but career impact zero.
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u/tobozo Sep 05 '16
Intolerance shouldn't be tolerated
That sounds a bit recursive
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u/FurryFingers Sep 05 '16
It's only one level down. It doesn't recurse.
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u/tobozo Sep 05 '16
It's only one level down to the next level, what if I don't tolerate "not tolerating intolerance".
not tolerating intolerance should not be tolerated not tolerating not tolerating intolerance should not be tolerated not tolerating not tolerating not tolerating intolerance should not be tolerated not tolerating not tolerating not tolerating not tolerating intolerance should not be tolerated not tolerating not tolerating not tolerating not tolerating not tolerating intolerance should not be toleratedsame as missiles, anti-missiles, anti-anti-missiles
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u/FurryFingers Sep 06 '16
But going any further down is just being stupid about it
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u/tobozo Sep 06 '16
Now you're being recursive :-)
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u/FurryFingers Sep 08 '16
Yeah, I'll conceed it is technically recursive. It's just not a sensible position to take from the 2nd one on down... even ignoring the length of it.
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u/ridicalis Sep 04 '16
Never even heard of nodevember until all this. Not sure how they think this helps get people in the door, unless their target audience is SJWs.
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u/BiscuitOfLife Sep 04 '16
unless their target audience is SJWs
The conference seems to be more concerned with being a politically-correct safespace than for professional development. One of the organizers actually is quoted on Twitter as saying: "Nodevember is not a professional conference."
https://i.imgur.com/MbAvZmQ.png
^ this tweet has since been deleted.
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u/Arcosim Sep 05 '16
The conference seems to be more concerned with being a politically-correct safespace than for professional development.
From where did these idiots crawled from? it's insane how they seem to be omnipresent as of lately. I wonder if they always existed but the internet and social media blew them out of proportion actually making their diatribe noticeable for the first time.
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u/FauxReal Sep 05 '16
I have no opinion of this situation either way because I only saw the title of OP's post and wanted to know what it was about. But I suspect you are right on why it's such a thing.
For instance, this is on my reddit front page... anyone who subscribes to /r/javascript now knows about it. The Internet and especially social media have a way of amplifying controversy and animal photos.
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u/palparepa Sep 04 '16
I wonder how long until we get gatherings advertised as "non politically-correct" as a good thing.
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u/SuperFLEB Sep 05 '16
I just hope the pendulum doesn't swing all the way to "We're dicks, bleaahhh!" sort of posturing. I just want to see people have a bit of tolerance balanced with professionalism all around, as if that's too much to ask.
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
Really, if people just act like normal people, things should be alright.
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u/FunctionPlastic Sep 05 '16
Homophobia and sexism were considered normal until some time ago and to many people they still are.
But I get the the thing we are really doing here is protecting the feelings of white men.
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u/falafel_eater Sep 05 '16
Please explain what in Crockford's behavior hurts the feelings of anyone.
Also, please explain why you think the feelings of these groups are better protected by publicly kicking Crockford out as opposed to asking Crockford to release some statement or quietly asking him to remove himself.And please be specific.
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u/FunctionPlastic Sep 05 '16
Why? My post is not about him. It's about the general idea that what society considers "normal" can often be oppressive.
The sentiment here is that these types of behavior should not be challenged at all, this entire charade got this amount of attention because it's extremely easy to use it as an example that all engagement is actually just the evil sjws attacking white men (this is what people^R white men on Reddit and 4chan quite literally believe).
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u/falafel_eater Sep 05 '16
It's about the general idea that what society considers "normal" can often be oppressive.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this.
The thing is that while Crockford is being accused of being offensive towards non-white-men, there is no evidence whatsoever that he said anything even remotely offensive. Using the word "promiscuous" is not offensive in and of itself, especially when it is so completely disconnected from anything to do with human relationships.
What Nodevember is doing is not challenging any sort of behavior. What they are doing is finding a high-profile scapegoat and using the absolutely flimsiest excuses possible to publicly tar and feather it. At no point did they satisfactorily describe what he did that was wrong nor did they try to correct anything.
This charade got a lot of attention because a very famous contributor was publicly shit on by the Nodevember organizers for no apparent reason, and because said organizers appear to be based their behavior on insane troll logic. Are some people going to jump on the bandwagon because it suits their Anti-SJW agenda? Sure. But that doesn't mean it's the main thing here.
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u/FunctionPlastic Sep 05 '16
I agree with what you said. I just find this part hard to believe:
Are some people going to jump on the bandwagon because it suits their Anti-SJW agenda? Sure. But that doesn't mean it's the main thing here.
Jumping on the bandwagon and injustice towards Crockford are not mutually exclusive. People in this thread are making things up to make this seem worse than it is, there's even a guy who used "cuck" and "mangina" and he got compassionate replies about not being too hard on himself. Political motivation of these posters coudn't be more evident. It's not about justice for Crockford.
The sentiment is obvious: this community is against social justice, and the most useful tool they have to fight it is misrepresenting the entire movement . Evidenced again by people posting TumblrInAction as some sort of unbiased window into social justice.
I'm not saying bad things don't happen, I'm saying Reddit and 4chan enjoy when they do: several years after the Donglegate thing happened, for example, there were still daily threads about it on /g/.
It's outrage culture and identity politics for internet reactionaries.
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u/qwfwq Sep 05 '16
I don't think Crockfords feelings are really what's at stake. I think what people are concerned about is that we are pushing away one of the most important contributor s to JavaScript code quality for trivial reasons.
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Sep 05 '16
[deleted]
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u/arcanin 🧶 Yarn maintainer Sep 05 '16
I just hope the pendulum doesn't swing all the way to "We're dicks, bleaahhh!" sort of posturing.
Please no brogramming again ...
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u/tnonee Sep 05 '16
I thought that was a joke started by some Facebook engineers that then got taken seriously by the likes of Shanley for ammo?
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u/arcanin 🧶 Yarn maintainer Sep 05 '16
Oh, I knew a few people who definitely embraced the brogramming philosophy and proudly labeled themselves as such. One of them also had "Nodes.js developer" on his Twitter bio, so they weren't the brightest either.
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u/palparepa Sep 05 '16
That's why I wrote "non politically-correct" instead of "non-politically-correct" ;)
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u/SuperFLEB Sep 05 '16
Yeah, I wasn't implying anything about your statement or motives, just sort of musing in response that I hope it doesn't go too far over the other end, as such things have a tendency to do.
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u/shriek Sep 05 '16
It's a hit and miss really. There were couple of good talks last year but other than that it's nothing really spectacular. It's sort of glorified meetup tbh. I should have gone to Node Interactive instead which had much better talks.
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Sep 04 '16
This. I hadn't heard of nodevember until today with these threads. What's this all about anyway?
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Sep 04 '16
[deleted]
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u/moscaOne Sep 04 '16
I thought that this could be PR-related as well, I definitely didn't even hear about Nodevember until this stunt. Got downvoted on the other thread for saying this, but it would be amazing if somehow Crockford -did- end up speaking at Nodevember. I would pay to see the audience reaction if he showed up on stage, unannounced (either permitted by the organizers or not).
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Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
Looks like you guys are beginning to realize what code-of-conducts are really about.
Boycott is fine, but it is also very effective to contact their sponsors, and explain why supporting Nodevember is a bad idea, and may harm their own brand.
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Sep 05 '16
I went to their website to see what sponsors they might have. It appears that they don't have any yet.
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u/bzeurunkl Sep 05 '16
When you take someone's words, and attribute meanings or intents the speak did not themself offer, there's a word for that. It's called "slander", and it'a actually a crime in some circumstances.
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u/b_bellomo Sep 05 '16
Yeah, that's what I think too. I twitted this to the person who started the boycott.
@nexxylove Excluding and shaming someone publicly for some jokes is worse than the said 'toxic' behavior. #crockford #nodevember
She blocked me.
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u/toiletjs Sep 05 '16
Instablock for anyone who disagrees with her. Cannot disrupt the echo chamber.
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u/saintPirelli Sep 05 '16
I don't get how people just wonder constantly about how they can bring their petty first world problems and their imaginary conflicts into completely unrelated topics/events/whatever. What a sad life.
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u/tilapiadated Sep 05 '16
Is Crockford speaking at any other upcoming conference that's recommended?
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u/alethia_and_liberty Sep 05 '16
I went last year, was on the fence about it this year. I was thinking about going, but after I discovered the tweets looking at their account first hand, I won't be at all.
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u/azangru Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
Jeez, why won’t people just treat conferences as educational events, without attacks of social justice warriors, from either side?
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
Because some people have some deeply rooted psychological issues that they've learned to use as weapons.
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Sep 04 '16
[deleted]
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u/azangru Sep 04 '16
My point exactly. Why won't people just accept Crockford as he is and learn from his talks whatever is applicable to JavaScript.
(Also, if Crockford’s absence is a done deal, why won't people just accept his absence and learn whatever is applicable to JavaScript from other speakers?)
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u/tebriel Sep 04 '16
Because this isn't about tolerance, it's about punishing those that disagree with you.
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u/blamo111 Sep 05 '16
That's the thing, there's no evidence of Crockford disagreeing with them.
Read the reasons here. These can't possibly be considered offensive by anyone who's mentally sound. I couldn't tell you from these 2 comments, if Crockford is a crotchety conservative or a rabid SJW. They're completely benign.
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
It would seem the technical qualifications of those other speakers are a bit suspect if you're picking them just to fill diversity quotas. So not sure how much learning would even be possible.
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u/azangru Sep 05 '16
technical qualifications of those other speakers are a bit suspect if you're picking them just to fill diversity quotas
Thank you for saying this out loud. This is my main beef with all this diversity movement.
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u/RoyGilbertBiv Sep 07 '16
The community is bored with JavaScript and is stirring up drama to entertain themselves.
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u/dwcmwa Sep 05 '16
I think the "this" keyword should be boycotted because it's sexist. All JavaScript code-bases should replace this with thex or some other pronoun.
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u/cupdmtea Sep 05 '16
/r/outoftheloop ?? WTF has happened? Did Crockford came out waving nazi flag or what?
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u/toiletjs Sep 05 '16
A few years ago he said "dog balls", specifically that })() looks like them.
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u/cupdmtea Sep 06 '16
Haha, yea i remmember that one from one of his talks I saw on YouTube.
If some people can't handle this than I really fear for the future.
Political correctness, gender politics and affirmative action finally made it to engineering. We are doomed.
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Sep 06 '16
This is mad. Nodevember are somehow now the gatekeeper of the entire javascript community and language? I never even heard of them before this whole hinge blew up, bunch of dramaqueens. My god, go to work tomorrow, write some code, nobody cares about this drama in the real world.
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u/JortsIsLife Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
I'm not boycotting it because I literally had no idea what it was and never planned to go. It's just a conference! Who cares?
Nodevember organizers overreacted in the most irritating way, and the overreaction to their overreaction is just as irritating. Everyone complaining about immature entitled millennials should lead by example and maturely react to this news without angry rants on sjw's or political correctness, because again it's just a stupid conference.
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
Unfortunately it's a bit more pervasive than a single conference. The behavior of these SJW types borders on sociopathy, and it's creating an actually toxic and divisive environment. It really shouldn't be tolerated.
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u/FurryFingers Sep 05 '16
I honestly think this person being irritated by all of us who are irritated is the most irritating of all.
Stop whining and let us have a discussion.
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u/RoyGilbertBiv Sep 07 '16
Watching two brands of SJW duke it out like this is a lot like watching two retarded dogs fight each other over a tennis ball that didn't actually get thrown except it's not at all entertaining.
Just as productive though!
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u/retrometr0 Oct 09 '16
You cannot hold someone accountable to invisible standards. If Crockford is being punished for breaking a code of conduct, that code needs to have been made public so he would at least have had the choice of willingly breaking it.
What you think of Crockford and his comments are irrelevant. This replaces one hidden club (Old Boys) with another hidden club (My Feelings). It doesn't fix anything, it merely changes the nature of the problem. A secret committee made an arbitrary choice based on some people's personal opinion - isn't that what we're trying to stop doing?
Furthermore, good luck drawing up a code of conduct that would have caught this statement in advance. "Balls". "Big boy pants". "Man up". "Life's a bitch". Also, I notice that in a lot of Crockford's talks, his default third person pronoun is the masculine "him/he", that's clearly going to offend a whole bunch of people, better make sure every speaker uses the full inclusive list.
In fact, going forward, every speaker at every tech event should submit a written copy of their talk, in full, for review by a committe to make sure that no one will feel left out. Said speaker will of course then be compelled not to deviate from the submitted talk.
I love how the people who think they're fixing the problem are making it worse, and can't even realize it.
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u/dodeca_negative Sep 05 '16 edited Sep 05 '16
By the way, the site specifically says that tickets are not refundable.
EDIT: Never mind, see below.
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u/fagnerbrack Sep 05 '16 edited Sep 05 '16
I sympathize with the matter too, but I guess 6 links in the hot Reddit tab for this sub about this thing are enough already.
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u/nomdebombe Sep 06 '16
You guys have sufficiently ruined this sub for me, and I'm unsubscribing.
I thought this place was for spreading js knowledge, not going on anti-sjw crusades. Guess this place isn't for me. Thanks.
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u/davesidious Sep 04 '16
So you are being intolerant because some people were intolerant about intolerance. O...k...
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u/Inspector-Space_Time Sep 04 '16
More like voting with your wallet against behaviour you don't think is fair.
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Sep 04 '16
[deleted]
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u/Geldan Sep 04 '16
It certainly is unfair. They invited him just to publicly uninvite and shame him. Had they never invited him in the first place everything would be fine. Had they given a substantial reason for uninviting him it would have been fair.
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u/ryosen Sep 05 '16
The funny thing with all of this is that Crockford's presence would help to legitimize their conference from a marketing stand-point. Him speaking there is not going to offer any real advantage to his own professional standing. He was doing them a huge favor by agreeing to speak there. Rejecting him will ensure that he never agrees to participate in their conference again and will discourage other high-profile people from supporting the conference.
I just hope that this doesn't cause him and other speakers to reject other small/start-up conferences that could greatly benefit from his involvement.
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Sep 04 '16
an event enjoyable by as many people as possible?
I think the people boycotting are doing so because they find environments such as nodevember unenjoyable.
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Sep 04 '16
It's unfair that event planners try to make an event enjoyable by as many people as possible?
I'll just exclude blacks from my dinner party because all my friends are racists. That falls under the 'fair' category by your definition, right?
Jeez, what a sensitive bunch of crybabies you boys are.
Do you not even care that a guy who did nothing wrong is being hung up for inane shit because of some cultish fuckwits? I have too much integrity to not get pissed, sorry if you don't share the sentiment.
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Sep 04 '16
[deleted]
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Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
Do you think I believe this is the reaction you had to reading my comment? Come back to reality, retard.
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Sep 04 '16
[deleted]
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Sep 04 '16
Your personality seems like a complete charade; do you actually communicate like this unironically?
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Sep 05 '16
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Sep 05 '16
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u/Inspector-Space_Time Sep 05 '16
Stop with your sexist terms. They aren't appreciated and make me feel uncomfortable. Not everyone disagreeing with you is male.
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Sep 04 '16
because some people were intolerant about intolerance
When was crockford intolerant? When he made a lighthearted joke about weakmaps? Idiot.
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u/a0viedo Sep 04 '16
If you were going just to see Crockford then you should had reconsider going to the conference before.
Leaving aside if they acted wrong or not, going for boycotting them is like firing you for having a bug in your code. Show some fucking empathy for conference organizers who gain 0$ from their events.
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
Sorry, but no. What goes around needs to come around. That's how people learn.
Actions -> consequences.
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u/tencircles Sep 04 '16
going for boycotting them is like firing you for having a bug in your code.
No, it's like not going on a 2nd date because your date was rude to a server.
Show some fucking empathy for conference organizers who gain 0$ from their events.
It was their choice. It was also their choice to cave into whining and have a development conference focused on feelings rather than development.
I'm a firm believer that choices should and do have consequences, life and the rest of the dev community seem to be pretty unanimous in their agreement with me on this.
I understand that it's hard when you make a bad decision; I've made many myself! I also understand that this is the only way we can learn and grow both as people and as organizations. I'm very glad that the organizers have been given this opportunity to learn!
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u/a0viedo Sep 04 '16
You can always decide not going to a 2nd date based on whatever the other person does, but starting a movement for people to stop dating the other person based on what you dislike seems childish.
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u/tencircles Sep 05 '16
but starting a movement for people to stop dating the other person based on what you dislike seems childish.
Kind of like banning someone from a conference because of a few tweets from overly sensitive attention seekers eh?
In all seriousness though, in your analogy one person is getting fired from one job. I was just following in your singular footsteps.
Regardless, myself and others will not be attending Nodevember because they've shown themselves to be callow, discourteous, and willing to place the unsubstantiated and vague accusations of a few individuals over the proliferation of knowledge. This kind of intellectual and moral laziness (at best), or obscurantism (at worst) would discourage me from supporting any event or company and I hope you arrive at the same conclusion after some further consideration. Critical thinking is a good thing! :)
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Sep 04 '16
[deleted]
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u/SuperFLEB Sep 05 '16
Hell, from what I gather, people can't even dredge up a solid accusation, much less evidence. It's just a vague heap of labels with no mention of measure, that we're all meant to tut-tut at and run away from, with the only flakes of concrete coming from a lot of confused barrel-scraping to try and suss out the few possible things that someone could be offended by.
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
And evidence or not, who the fuck wants to go to a circle jerk filled with such toxic crybullies? Say the wrong thing and some cunt with an agenda will try to get you fired. Your career ain't worth the risk.
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Sep 06 '16
I feel like some people like these guys just go to conferences and try to make their "brand" on twitter causing outrage at nothing.
Do any of them actually consider most JS devs will go to an actual desk at an actual job in the morning to write actually javascript where none of this matters a bit.
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Sep 04 '16
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u/ccricers Sep 05 '16
I recall "dongle-gate" at PyCon several years ago. Was that basically the same thing? Involving a SJW feminist that was too offended at a joke made by two audience members sitting next to her, and instead of just keeping it to herself she made a tweet about it, causing the molehill to explode.
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Sep 05 '16
Don't give up programming, there's plenty of truth and beauty in coding.
I've seen too many technical communities get popular and then get destroyed by PC drama. And this is sad, because back in the day, we really didn't about sex, race or any -isms. We were just happy to share and learn from anybody.
I've also noticed that the more "difficult" and effort a programming language/domain requires, the less the number of gadflies are involved. That's why you end up with all the drama surrounding JS and Python, they are popular and have a lower barrier to entry.
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u/llainebdx33600 Sep 05 '16
Just don't use JS dude, JS is a really shitty language and moreover, the community is full of people that never takes CS class, just finished CodeSchools and label themselves as "full stack developer". Use system programming like D or C++ or even Ruby you will never find this kind of crap.
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Sep 05 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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Sep 06 '16
Well I'm here because I love programming and find Web programming in particular to be fascinating and fun. Bt the one thing I agree with him on is these "full stack developers" who did a weekend "bootcamp" and think they know what being a developer is.
At the end of the day, credible companies don't hire developers, they hire qualified software engineers. Big difference.
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Sep 06 '16
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u/llainebdx33600 Sep 06 '16
I'm pretty sure you are confusing the Ruby community and the Rails community. For Rails, it's often true, all the boilerplate features allow everybody to build something fast enough to not think about what they are doing.
The types of projects being written in Ruby often times they're just some syntactic sugar ...
Have you ever heard of JRuby for example ? Or concurrent ruby ?
JS you will see lots of very technically impressive projects. Well, I remember that guy that build something called Redux, which was a pure copycat of one of the Gang of Four design pattern. Also left-pad, that project was pure Gem.
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Sep 05 '16
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Sep 05 '16
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
I'm with ya man. If I ever get sick of programming, I'm going 180 and working the fuck outside doing manual labor
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Sep 04 '16
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u/patrickfatrick Sep 04 '16
I side with defending Crockford in this case but sometimes it does feel like the anti-SJW thing is just as much of an SJW concern except in the opposite direction. "We will show how upset we are at someone overreacting to something... by overreacting at them!"
We shouldn't really start asking SJWs to STFU because that's basically what we are accusing the SJW of doing in the first place. The point is that everyone's voice should be heard and taken seriously. That said, institutions should not be in favor of silencing participants, so while I don't support Nodevember here I also think it's silly to make a big fucking deal out of it. It's their prerogative and you can just not go.
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u/phpdevster Sep 05 '16
I'm sorry, but not all points and opinions are equally valid, and not everyone should be taken seriously.
You can't reason with the unreasonable, thus telling them to STFU and keep their stupid opinions to themselves is a perfectly valid response.
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u/dwighthouse Sep 05 '16
The SJW playbook counts on their enemy rolling over and allowing noble defeat ("we won't stoop to their level."). The only way to get someone to abandon cheap, cowardly practices involving public shaming and attacking the personal and financial security of their opponents is to do the same to them so much more and with greater efficiency, that they will roll over and abandon such practices. Ghandi only won because he was fighting civilized opponents that didn't really want to fight. In a normal conflict of incompatible goals, only overwhelming force will get an opponent to yield. SJWs do not actually believe in letting people do what they wish. They want control over thought and speech in every venue they enter. Only by ridding organizations of these control-obsessed people, or relegating them to ridicule, can the principles of free expression be restored.
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u/Sklavenmoral Sep 05 '16
You have created a Morality out of maturity, but what is the value of maturity?
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Sep 05 '16
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u/dwighthouse Sep 05 '16
I suspect it was intentional, since Nodevember started it by trying to create an inclusive environment by uninviting people.
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Sep 04 '16
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u/jillesme Sep 05 '16
You're not really part of the JavaScript community if you can't spell JavaScript correctly
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u/BlahYourHamster Sep 04 '16
Care to fill in the uninformed?