r/javascript • u/taeda • Apr 21 '15
Recruiters... JavaScript is NOT Java.
http://javascriptisnotjava.io/54
u/nuxnax Apr 21 '15
does anyone here have enterprise javascript beans experience?
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u/GFandango Apr 21 '15
Dear Sir, I have more than 10 years of industry experience in organic fair-trade enterprise javascript beans.
We work with industry experts to source only the purest web clouds for our beans and we expand our beans horizontally across a multitude of verticals.
Please consider our application, hope to hear from you soon.
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u/ianme Apr 21 '15
But javascript has classes now! Just like Java! Same language confirmed.
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u/GFandango Apr 21 '15
If you spell Oracle backwards it reads Illuminati.
Confirmed.
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u/tamat Apr 21 '15
no, is elcaro, man. don't do that, its mean, you are confusing me.
btw, elcaro translates to "the expensive" in spanish, maybe you are into something
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u/hmny Apr 21 '15
When you read this and laugh but also double check it in case you'd missed something
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u/SarahC Apr 21 '15
You mean I can avoid fucking prototype chains?!
Woooooooo!
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u/kolme WebComponents FTW Apr 21 '15
No, it's just syntactic sugar. The prototype chains are now disguised as classes.
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u/SarahC Apr 22 '15
!............ .!...
Jeez... =(
EVERY other mother bumping language I know uses some sort of classes.... except this booger.
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Apr 21 '15
Or you could just stop trying to use OO design in a language that isn't well suited for it.
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Apr 21 '15
Pretty much this. I've never needed classes in JS. I've needed tail calls I didn't have to fake myself, but once they're in place, JS will - to me - have grown up. Now we just need to eliminate
varand leave onlyletandconst, and things get really interesting.2
u/ianme Apr 22 '15
Javascript is about as well suited for OO design as it is well suited for functional programming. Using the pieces of both that javascript provides is in my opinion the correct way to write the language.
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u/gordonv Apr 21 '15
Confusion has been happening since 2000.
Can't wait for them to explain Node JS
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u/freedomfreighter Apr 21 '15
Something to do with a college introductory linked list, right?
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u/GFandango Apr 21 '15
No no it must be about pointers. I used to know all about those pointers. It's like an arrow that connects to the memory or something.
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Apr 21 '15
Scalewebbers needed for node startup
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u/GFandango Apr 21 '15
Minimum ten years AngularJava experience required, familiarity with JavaQuery a plus.
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u/blackzver Apr 21 '15
JavaScript is to Java as fun is to funeral.
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Apr 21 '15
Or ham is to hamburger.
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u/Zubei_ Apr 21 '15
They need to just call it ECMAScript instead.
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u/Randolpho Software Architect Apr 21 '15
Yes! I already do this, both as a developer and as a hiring manager.
If developers and hiring managers stop calling it Javascript on their resumes and stop asking for it from recruiters, the problem eventually will go away.
You can start by just getting in the habit of calling it EcmaScript everywhere you go. Don't tell people you're a javascript developer, tell them you're an EcmaScript developer. Purge the word from your lexicon. Put EcmaScript 5 and (hopefully) EcmaScript 6 in prominent positions on your resume and drop javascript down near c and perl. Stop putting
type="text/javascript"in your<script>tags.If we all do this, the recruiters will stop being confused by it and we'll weed out those "database developers" who "know a little jquery" in the process.
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u/RankFoundry Apr 21 '15
Or literally anything else. The insistence of calling it JavaScript was stupid. It was just a cheap way to piggy back on the rising popularity of Java at the time and it bit them in the ass because they couldn't officially call it that.
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u/Randolpho Software Architect Apr 21 '15
I wonder how well a "rename javscript" campaign would fly...
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u/RankFoundry Apr 21 '15
If we came up with a great name, it just might work.
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u/aeflash Apr 21 '15
Just start calling it ES5/ES6... Asking for "ES6" in a job req. would actually be useful, if that is what your team is using.
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u/RankFoundry Apr 21 '15
Practical and precise but kinda crappy. I want my computer languages to have whimsical names. It gives me one more reason not to blow my brains out and I need every reason I can get.
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u/Randolpho Software Architect Apr 21 '15
How about UbiquitiScript, or OmniScript, or something that denotes the inevitability of Atwood's Law. Hell, how about AtwoodScript or JeffScript?
Or maybe ECMA, W3C or some other major group could organize a nomination and voting campaign? Everyone submits nominations, with a few filters to get rid of joke/profane nominations, then a couple rounds of voting until we get a finalized name.
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Apr 21 '15
LiveScript was a cool name, honestly, which is now in use by a cooler ECMAScript dialect.
An even cooler name was Mocha, which Brendan should've just insisted on keeping.
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u/GundamWang Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
How does everyone pronounce this? Do you say "E-C-M-A script", or " ekmuh script"?
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Apr 21 '15
[deleted]
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u/GundamWang Apr 21 '15
Interesting, two different answers. Now to see which ones gets more upvotes.
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u/franklyimshocked Apr 21 '15
Ha ha ha. I worked as an IT recruiter for 8 years. That sentence gave me a laugh and reminded me of working with so many technically illiterate people. Its real Agency mentality. Hire a load of kids straight out of college with loads of energy and stick them on a phone for 8 hours a day. Most only half read CV's and barely understand tech.
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Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
I went to a drinks evening that a recruiter was putting on for their contractors over Christmas.
One young recruiter said he had a law degree. So I asked him to name some basic court cases (I'd been to law school, too). He couldn't.
The impression I get of most recruiters are that they are bottom-of-the-barrel individuals. Recruitment is not about getting the right person for the job - it is about getting commissions.
Recruiters have no incentive to do the right thing by their "capital" (that's you or me, they don't care about the fact we are human beings). They will pitch you at a low rate because they often get fixed commissions or even a percentage - and they are competing against other agencies. It is better they get you in at a low rate then not in at all; and the lower the rate they pitch you, the more likely an employer will pick you over the guy from the other agency.
If a recruiter low-balls you it is because they want a commission; they couldn't care less what you think you're worth. Remember that.
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u/franklyimshocked Apr 21 '15
It depends on the country I guess. When I was a recruiter I worked mostly for companies in Dublin. Irish tech companies don't care about salary and it never came down to offering cheaper employees, just the best, but I mostly covered high end development. You could be right for entry level and help desk roles. Also the company sets the salary, not the recruiter, so a lot of time we would be fighting to get a higher salary for our candidates because we knew they wouldn't accept a low offer, but if a company offers you are obliged to pass it over to the candidate and inevitably get an earful from an unhappy candidate. If you get paid commission, its usually based on a percentage of the persons wage, so getting a low offer means less commission, so its not in your interest to low ball anyone, but again, it depends on where you are based. I worked for a lot of Irish Tech recruitment companies so I can only speak from my own experience. The best recruiters made long term connections with their candidates. Ireland is small enough so you can't burn bridges. Todays candidate is tomorrows client. But I also knew some recruiters working in London who said it was like a meat factory, hire and fire as fast as you can. But then again, I'm not defending all recruiters, I am an ex-recruiter after all and don't want to go back into it again
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Apr 21 '15
The only good recruiters were those that understood tech. As soon as they could get a job in tech they jumped.
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u/franklyimshocked Apr 21 '15
Thats what I'm doing! Currently on a year out studying to bring my dev skills up a bit before dropping my CV back in to most of my ex-clients
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Apr 21 '15
When I worked in SF, the recruiters would frequently disappear for this reason. They had good connections.
Good luck!
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u/franklyimshocked Apr 21 '15
I got to the point where I had to sit down with my wife and say, look babe I seem to know more than most of the people I'm interviewing, maybe I'm in the wrong job, or just on the wrong side of the desk. Hopefully it works out!
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Apr 21 '15
It's mostly about just bullshitting your way into your first job, then making sure once you get it you get the job done no matter what.
I've helped many friends with this. They key is, once you get the job, make a solid 6-12 month commitment to working 10-11 hour days and bring your lunch so you're super productive. This pays off for the company but it pays off 100x more for yourself.
Be the first one in, leave after rush hour. Also leave work at work.
Once you've perfected that job, cut back to 40 hours max (you will have already proven yourself). In your spare time (or on the job learning) make sure you're working toward something else though, this industry is always moving. Yes some of it is the new "whiz bang bullshit fad" but even learning that shit will give you a new outlook on how you're doing things currently.
You can do this. If you devote yourself you can get into that top 10% of developers that are awesome. I've been in this field for what seems like my entire life. I've only worked with 4-5 developers that really blew me away out of probably pushing 400+ (was a consultant and contractor for years). I'm not as good as those guys, but I know what it takes to get close.
The key is getting support from your wife for that initial period. Also if you switch jobs, do the same thing at your new job as well.
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u/franklyimshocked Apr 21 '15
Solid advice there. Thanks for that!
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Apr 21 '15
You're very welcome. You'll do fine, this field has so many shit workers, if you're mediocre you'll still be better than 50-60% (sadly).
:-)
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u/I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies Apr 21 '15
Aww man. I guess I need to go find a wife. :/
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Apr 21 '15
?
I was saying support for the wife meaning, she's going to have to understand the job comes first for a while. If you're single, there's no one to answer to.
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u/I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies Apr 21 '15
Haha, ok, I thought you needed the support from your wife to help get you through it, not just her acceptance. :)
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Apr 21 '15
It's really triggering the ol' impostor syndrome that I'm getting none of the recruiter spam that everyone else is complaining about. I mean, I'd ignore it but it's nice to be asked.
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u/bowlich Apr 21 '15
I know the feeling. I'm on LinkedIn. I post on a lot of tech forums. I keep a portfolio and a tech blog. A github account. My inbox should be full of spam! I get maybe one recruiter contacting me a year.
I'm happy with my current employer. Haven't had any issues when I am job hunting with finding opportunities. But I wouldn't mind having someone call me to fluff up my ego once and a while.
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u/GundamWang Apr 21 '15
It depends on how much fluff is in your resume, where you decided to post it, and which recruiters you gave it to. For example, there's recruiters for recruiters. These guys who can barely speak or understand English, and they just harvest resumes, give them to actual recruiters, and then take a small cut.
It also depends a bit on whether you contacted all your recruiters when you finally found a job. Make sure you do this btw.
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u/jellatin Apr 21 '15
To you and /u/bowlich both: The systems these recruiters pull from are incredibly inbred. If you end up in one recruitment database, you're likely to end up in a dozen. Posting your resume on Monster, signing up for https://angel.co/, or applying to a job through a recruitment website like cybercoders.com is a great way to get dozens of calls in the next few weeks.
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u/bowlich Apr 21 '15
This would probably explain it then. All my hires have been through one-on-one networking or via directly contacting a hiring manager at a company. I've never gone through a recruiter or seen a need for one.
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u/teel Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
Those recruiters are seriously the worst. I have zero patience of dealing with their bullshit. Dumbasses calling me in the middle of a work day without having any kind grasp of even the most basic details. Why would I ever even consider working for a company - whose name they won't even tell me - full of people hired by these guys? They're more of nuisance these days, than those goddamn telephone salesmen who call you to try to sell magazines or whatever. Fuck them and the companies who hire them.
Sorry about the rant. Feels good to get it off my chest. There are good recruiters out there, not all of them are idiots... Just most of them.
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Apr 21 '15
"Within 15 miles"
"We have a job 50 miles away that you're perfect for""fuck you".
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u/sdubois Apr 21 '15
you mean you don't want a 3 month contract job in Texas working on ASP.NET?
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u/sdubois Apr 21 '15
what about a 6 month contract Job in a city on the opposite side of the country "working on the Drupals"
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u/AndyTheAbsurd Apr 21 '15
Earlier this year, I had a recruiter try to talk to me into taking a 3 month contract in Pittsburgh. I live in Florida - what the hell would I want to go to Pittsburgh for?
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u/sdubois Apr 21 '15
I swear these recruiters are paid commission or something. I have never run across people who are so overzealous in my life.
I'm looking for a job now, and at first I thought it was pretty cool (hey, look at me, I have marketable skills!) but now I realize I'm just being harassed by idiots
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Apr 21 '15
The worst is the recruiters who clearly don't read your resume and just CTRL + F your resume for skills / keywords and then give you a call.
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u/alinroc Apr 21 '15
I've had several recruiters admit (many years ago) to me that they don't read resumes.
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u/RankFoundry Apr 21 '15
I get that all the time. My resume: Web developer with extensive experience with SQL Server. My offers: SQL Server DBA jobs!
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u/skwigger Apr 21 '15
I cannot stand recruiters.
I had one call me on my work line. They must have called the directory and found me, because I don't even know my work number to post it anywhere. They asked "is this a good time to talk?" I said "no, actually, it's not". And they asked if there was a better time/way to reach me. I told them they could contact me on LinkedIn (equally as useless). They seemed offended that I didn't take them seriously.
My job is fine, but a call like that could easily cost someone their job, depending on the culture. A manager could easily overhear the call and assume you were looking for another job, and decide to replace you before you can replace them.
I had another recruiter call me on a Saturday and ask if I was exploring new opportunities. I told him I'm not, I'm very happy where I am. He asked what it would take for me to be open to a new opportunity. I said I'm happy where I am. He said, well, you would want to at least make more than you're making now, right? I said yes, but it's about more than money, I am happy where I am. He asks, well what's that number? I repeated, I'm happy where I am. He says well, would $X be enough? And I repeated, I'm happy where I am, it is about more than just money.
I get when recruiters call be about Java positions. I understand their shitty search parameters pick up my resume because a search for Java turns up Javascript. I really don't understand when I get a call about a .NET position. A language/framework I've never touched, and it is most certainly not on my resume.
Just as you said, there are good recruiters though, and one helped me find my current position.
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u/Nadril Apr 21 '15
I had another recruiter call me on a Saturday and ask if I was exploring new opportunities. I told him I'm not, I'm very happy where I am. He asked what it would take for me to be open to a new opportunity. I said I'm happy where I am. He said, well, you would want to at least make more than you're making now, right? I said yes, but it's about more than money, I am happy where I am. He asks, well what's that number? I repeated, I'm happy where I am. He says well, would $X be enough? And I repeated, I'm happy where I am, it is about more than just money.
Ugh, man. When I was looking for a job late last year after losing mine I had to deal with this shit. I had accepted a new job and was pretty happy about it.
However, I still had an interview lined up for the next day (phone interview with a company I had researched more after the fact and decided they weren't really a good fit) so I called up the recruiter to let them know.
She suddenly starts asking me about what I was going to make at the new position, and then just starts throwing out numbers of what I could be making at the position she was selling me on. Just rubbed me as extremely unprofessional and annoying.
I've dealt with some good recruiters, but I've dealt with a lot more really shitty ones.
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u/teel Apr 21 '15
I had another recruiter call me on a Saturday and ask if I was exploring new opportunities. I told him I'm not, I'm very happy where I am. He asked what it would take for me to be open to a new opportunity. I said I'm happy where I am. He said, well, you would want to at least make more than you're making now, right? I said yes, but it's about more than money, I am happy where I am. He asks, well what's that number? I repeated, I'm happy where I am. He says well, would $X be enough? And I repeated, I'm happy where I am, it is about more than just money.
That's so annoying. I'm a partner and one of the co-founders in my current (small) company and they still do this every damn time, even after I tell them that and say that I'm currently 100% dedicated to make our own company a successful one and I love doing it. I mean wtf? You'd need to have pretty fucking good offer for me to throw years of hard work in the trash just like that. And they could read all of that from my LinkedIn profile where they obviously got my contact info if they actually knew how to read.
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Apr 21 '15
This idea is as equally challenging to accept for many developers. The most demanded item in ES6.... classes. I have seen people here on this subreddit who cannot seem to even approach this language without something like Babel.js so that they can write more Java friendly code.
Perhaps before we start hating on the recruiters we, as developers, should clean our own house.
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u/adenzerda Apr 21 '15
The most demanded item in ES6.... classes
Which themselves are just syntactic sugar over the existing object/prototype model. Sigh.
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Apr 21 '15
True, so? If they are just syntactic sugar you could argue they are entirely unnecessary. Most of the TC39 thought this way.... except the demand for classes was way too high. There are a crap ton of Java and C# developers who want JavaScript to be Java.
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u/adenzerda Apr 22 '15
If they are just syntactic sugar you could argue they are entirely unnecessary.
That indeed was my angle, yes
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u/fecal_brunch Apr 21 '15
There's nothing wrong with syntactic sugar, especially in a language as verbose as JavaScript.
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u/ratking11 Apr 21 '15
We need thousands of lines of code ASAP. Get me the fastest typing developer you can find.
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u/I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies Apr 21 '15
And he should have at least 10 years of experience with HTML5.
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u/ratking11 Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
HTML5 is a crutch. I've been coding pure semantic HTML since 1994.
If you just take a look <img src="eyes.gif"> at my <blink>resume</blink>, you'll see <img src="eyes.gif"> that I have ample qualifications. Just ask anyone <a href="http://codingplace.code/coming-soon.html" title="under construction!">I've worked with</a>! I hope to see you soon! <img src="eyes.gif"> <a href="codingplace.code/dev444/coming-soon.html">go to the next programmer in the programmer webring →</a>1
Apr 21 '15
Tsk tsk. That should be a →
edit: lol never mind entities aren't escaped
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u/ratking11 Apr 21 '15
I was shocked to find that too! I suppose I should have put all this in the code wrapper.
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u/Shaper_pmp Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
In my entire life I have met exactly one good IT recruiter who took the time to understand the industry at even a basic level... and he doesn't work in the recruitment industry any more.
All the others - every single one - could have been replaced with a one-line regexp scanning CVs for substrings.
In fact the one-line regexp would probably have done better, because it would at least understand \b.
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Apr 21 '15
To be fair, their confusion is exactly what Netscape's marketing department was going for when they renamed LiveScript to JavaScript.
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u/zapatoada Apr 21 '15
There are two in my town that I'm willing to talk to. Good forbid they ever move or retire.
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u/vestedfox Apr 21 '15
@recruiterbro! from real live recrutier emails.
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u/greshick Apr 21 '15
https://mobile.twitter.com/recruiterbro/status/587646435446796289
I need to learn that trick. Inhale while exhaling.
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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Apr 21 '15
"Looking for someone who can breathe asynchronously" HT @kramretak
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u/elektroholunder Apr 21 '15
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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Apr 21 '15
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u/hmny Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 22 '15
I was supposed to do a university project in Java applet for a Java related course, I asked my professor to do it with canvas in JavaScript since no one is using applets anymore and he agreed because he tough JavaScript is another fancy Java framework
Edit: and I didn't correct him
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u/corruption93 Apr 21 '15
the two languages could not be further from the same thing.
I like how people say stuff like this. Yes, they could be A LOT further than than being the same thing. They have quite a few similarities. They are pretty different. I wouldn't say completely different.
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Apr 21 '15
Granted they have a somewhat similar syntax. (as all c-like languages do)
Java has class based OO, JS has prototypal OO
Java is statically typed, JS is dynamic
Java pre java 8 was not functional, JS is functional
Java is multi threaded
Those are pretty major differences and the kind of code you write for both will tend to be pretty different.
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u/roboborbobwillrobyou Apr 21 '15
Recruiters are the most selfish people to interact with. Never had a positive experience with any one of them. You should apply directly to companies, it's the best way to deal with your career. Recruiting is a deep dark world.
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u/yourparadigm Apr 21 '15
Don't tell them! It's a good litmus test for whether I want to read the e-mail.
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u/SuperFLEB Apr 21 '15
I know very little about these things, so I might be wrong, but isn't dubstep based (partly) on dub?
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Apr 21 '15
Mr. Senior Technical Recruiter contacted me on LinkedIn the other day. He was looking for somebody with 4-6 years of experience in designing UI screen with Java Scripts, J Query and HTML5.
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u/alteresc Apr 21 '15
I'm just happy when they remember to replace the name in their form letters. I get a lot with the first name of another person.
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u/jkaczor Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
Heh.... I got the following on Friday:
"We are currently seeking for additional workforce that helps propel our company onward particularly Company Nurse/Managers/Sales Representative/ Architect &Mechanical Engineers/Funeral Directors/Scientist/Biochemist/Psychiatrist and IT Managers."
If they are recruiting all those roles for the same organization, is it SPECTRE ?
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u/the_hoser Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
I have this running joke that, since Rhino/Nashorn came out, Java can contain Javascript, much like a car can contain carpet. So I apply this same principle to the list provided on that site:
Comparisons have a "can contain" relationship:
car is to carpet - check
ham is to hamster - ugh… i hope not
pot is to potato - sure, check…
cat is to caterpillar - yeah, likely. check.
cat is to catfish - on a good day, yes. check.
bob(marley) is to spongebob - wat…
butt is to butter - O_O… check…
horse is to horseradish - okay yeah but…
dub is to dubstep - only if they want me to stop watching.
EDIT: Forgot about Rhino. It's so easy to do...
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u/turtlecopter Apr 21 '15
I got a recruiter email recently about "creating the legacy code".
They really do say the darndest things.