I’m only on season 3 and their relationship is so weird to me. I don’t understand. Is he madly in love with Watson and he feels tortured by it? It’s almost painful to watch and I feel like I’m watching two people really confused about the nature of their relationship and Joan shows no real emotions about anything. I mean Sherlock has show more emotion and tears than Joan. So I don’t know if she feels anything about Sherlock. Does that change over time? What’s your interpretation of their relationship?

Elementary was more realistic and JLM was a more believable Sherlock. The BBC series was way too goofy at times. I read in an interview that Cumberbatch didn’t want JLM to play Sherlock because he thought he might outshine him.

Love this show but Watson’s character annoys me quite a bit

I'm still on S1E14 but Watson is constructed so basically, like any actress would be able to do it. The character doesn't have anything that distinguish her or make me like her, or even remember her when i think about the series. Always a monotone voice, no great or funny or dramatic gestures. The same thing bothered me in Scully, from X-Files. I think they construct female characters in such a wishy-washy way.

In episode 4x13 "A Study in Charlotte", the B plot involves a neighbour who moved out and turned his place into an AirBNB (or, rather, an AirBNB lookalike called "AwayKay") because Holmes and Watson were loud and inconvenient neighbours; the AirBNB guests disturb Holmes and Watson in turn, which was the intention of the neighbour. That building is set on fire by an arsonist during the episode, and at the end, Watson visits the neighbour and says

You can also reopen your AwayKay, but we would much rather you moved back in. Robert Frost said that fences make good neighbors. But maybe that's because there wasn't sound-dampening insulation back then. Since you are rebuilding anyway, we can have it installed for you as a belated housewarming gift.

Watson recognises that the lack of an appropriate "fence" between her house and the neighbour's has harmed their relationship, and proposes sound-proof walls as the modern form of a "good fence" so that they can all be "good neighbours". In doing so, she references Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall", which includes the phrase "Good fences make good neighbours." There are two problems with this reference to Frost.

First of all, the aphorism "Good fences make good neighbours" predates Robert Frost. It first appeared in English in that exact form in 1850, in Blum's Farmer's and Planter's Almanac, though the general notion is at least several centuries old (a medieval proverb said "It is good to erect hedges with the neighbours"). Attributing it to Frost is rather like attributing "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" to Michael Scott. Like, yes, he said that, but it's not from him.

More importantly, in the poem "Mending Wall", Robert Frost does not repeat the phrase as an endorsement. The narrator's neighbour says it, and the narrator wonders if it's really even true, and explicitly says that, along at least some of the border between their properties, they "do not need a wall".

There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors.'
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offense.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.'

The narrator mildly criticises the neighbour's seeming unthinking adherence to the proverb, wondering if it might be possible to convince him otherwise and to put actual thought into what fences are for and under what circumstances they are necessary.

He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, 'Good fences make good neighbors.'

Now, this isn't some kind of deep exegesis I'm engaging in here. This is just what's plainly in the text of the poem. If Watson has even read the poem, she clearly didn't even understand the surface meaning. So she apparently likes to go around referencing famous poets when she's not actually familiar with what she's referencing at all. Totally pretentious, pseudo-intellectual behaviour. (Hell, maybe she mines books of quotations so that she can sound more intellectual and well-read than she really is.)

Really disappointing to see from the character, because she seems like a pleasant person otherwise.

Everything about Sherlock and Watson is handled better in Elementary. You actually see Sherlock’s deductions occur step by step. There’s a logical path behind every conclusion, and nothing feels like it’s pulled out of thin air. Sherlock is depicted as a real person dealing with genuine trauma, not just some untouchable genius archetype.

Watson, too, is a fully developed character. She’s not just there to observe Sherlock work; she plays an active role, both emotionally and intellectually. Her medical expertise adds real depth to the cases, and her presence truly influences Sherlock’s development.

In the BBC version, Watson barely feels like a real person. He doesn’t impact the story much and mostly just reacts to Sherlock’s genius from the sidelines. He’s there to admire, not to participate.

The only thing holding Elementary back was its case-of-the-week format. If it had embraced a longer, serialized structure, it could have easily become the best Sherlock Holmes adaptation ever made.

I'm doing a re-watch and can't help but notice the amount of times they use Keith for people they are accusing but never find and ultimately move away from

Principally the reconfiguring of Watson as a woman being influenced by the iconic pairings of The Doctors & his (prior to 'our Jodie') mostly female 'companions'.
There's some similarities with their dynamics & they usually also come together in a not so good twist of fate.

Some parallels betwixt Cptn Gregson of the 11th & The Brigadier of UNIT, eg both dealing with the idiosyncrasies of the central character whilst acknowledging their value & having to answer to higher-ups.

One could even speculate about a reverse process with the groundwork for a female 13th Dr being laid by Ms Liu.

Almost definitely random is Inspector Gareth Lestrade (just "G." in canon) being played by Sean Pertwee, son of Jon who played the 3rd Doctor.
It's even there in some mannerisms.

Also: Scarves.

The 2nd image is from the Tardis wiki & the gal from Down Under (in the middle in mauve) is Tegan Jovanka (Janet Fielding) who spanned a regen & makes a return in ths decade.

I was just casually watching again. And S6E2 Sherlock said something to the effect of “Watson does your phone also have an app to for locating white supremacists? Because a group of them may now be in possession of a dirty bomb, and our best hope of finding them has a bullet in the brain.” Just yes her phone having a Geiger app is unbelievable, but this line makes it somehow worse. And just it’s so clunky. Brain injury (Sherlock) or not he could have come up with something better, but I guess the writers couldn’t.

Have you heard any? Any just particularly well done lines? (Because I hate being negative but the line sucked so bad.)

Just to clarify - I watched the show many years ago and now I’m rewatching it, and I’m on season 1 (so I’m fine with spoilers).

In S1E16, Sherlock proposes that Joan stay with him and offers her a salary. Basically he becomes her boss and pays her out of his own pocket. I don’t remember this business model ever being addressed again until season 3, when Joan becomes an independent detective.

What I don’t like about this is that it makes their partnership feel less like genuine friendship and more like a business arrangement. Sherlock has unlimited money and pays Joan because he doesn’t want to be alone. Joan stays because she’s changing careers and needs money (no judgment there, we all do).

Holmes also pays her throughout most of her training in season 1, when she isn’t functioning as a detective, which doesn’t make sense to me, since in real life trainees are usually the ones investing in the training, and not being paid for it.

I don’t think the NYPD paid them anything, right? So all of Joan’s income would have come from Sherlock. But if that’s the case, why would he pay her from his pocket if they also take client cases? Wouldn’t it make more sense to split earnings from cases? Why does she take Sherlok's money?

Sorry for ranting, but this focus on money kind of distracted me from seeing Joan as someone who is genuinely building a friendship with Sherlock.

Olivia d'Abo would have been a better choice. She could pull off a far more sinister look and she had incredible depth in the role she did play on Elementary though. Also, she probably would’ve been available to be in more episodes than the original Moriarty.

Every episodes, form their first meeting till the end Joan continuously Disrespects and disregards Morland Holmes when he shows her nothing but appreciation and respect... I sometimes hate how much Joan and others like Captain Gregson disrespect him...

Morland is one of the best characters if not the best... Well Mannered, Well Spoken, Rich and Powerful... He may have grey morals or may not have treated Sherlock well but he is in no way shape or form a bad person.

Recently started watching this series and am really enjoying the characters. I have only seen a few episodes and they are out of order so maybe I missed something. And maybe I’m just dumb.

I’m a little afraid to ask this question because it seems so elementary (hah hah), but why is there no mention of Holmes’ creator? Are we to believe Arthur Conan Doyle never existed? I keep expecting people to say, “your name is Sherlock Holmes? And your partner’s name is Joan Watson?!?? How wild is that? Just like the fictional characters?”

But no one says anything. Because the Sherlock Holmes books just don’t exist? I get that our characters are reimagined from the originals. Is it the case that in the world that is Elementary the Holmes author never existed?

Joan knew everything about Sherlock- eccentricity, his paramour, his presence and his drug issues. He is transparent and protective of her. Yes, as a method of coping teaching Joan his way made him feel grounded. So what does Joan bring to this partnership(except a brilliant wardrobe and stylish heels)- calling him a lost cause like Shinwell, registering him for NYOOPI without his knowledge(she is so bad she couldn’t even observe the change in Star and name🤣) wen he returns from London, she acts like she will help if he gets stuck and after being badly beaten by Shinwell, she still keeps in contact, gives him lecture on Do no harm, while Sherlock would do anything risking his life for Joan, Praises her slightest accomplishment.

Wen Kitty return she questions Sherlock on allowing him to trust Kitty back( who was better detective than Joan) while in case of Shinwell she looks at the better evil logic. Lol

The books it was the other way around, here I find how can Sherlock be with such a toxic, eye rolling, overbearing, nosey, snoopy person

FYI- Joan in no way makes any effort to make Sherlock a better detective as he is awesome to begin, and she learnt anything anout being detective is from him.

So I googled Jonny yesterday for no apparent reason and found out that Jonny and Michelle Hicks divorced back in 2018. I was so flabbergasted because I used to be one of his fans, had fan accounts of him on insta and tumblr, and kept up with any relevant news about him. And I’m only finding this out now? Crazy because I was sure that back in 2018-2019 there wasn’t any news about their divorce. Was it disclosed only recently or am I just crazy?

Sherlock looked at suspects on his computer and I swear, the second guy looks like Captain Gregson! It’s probably some other actor, but there are similarities! (Approx. min. 49.22)

Edit: Have not finished all his episodes, based on the episode I just started….mistakes were made. Thank you everyone who gave me the benefit of the doubt! 🙈

Does anyone else suspect that the folks at Elementary have a leg fetish? Lucy Liu always seems to be wearing short skirts and hosiery...not that I'm complaining ;)

Made yesterday with chatGPT, my wife and I watched the final episode last night, we really loved this show! 🥰

I wish we didn't get the reveal of who Moriarty was in Season 1.

I was rewatching S1 last week and I just finished last night. I had to pause when it came to the scene with Sherlock and Moriarty in the hospital after Sherlock "OD'd" because I feel like it was too easy for Moriarty to be taken out like that. It was very disappointing for me because while she would've underestimated Joan, I was sure that she wouldn't underestimate Sherlock and she wouldn't have gone to the hospital without back up or whatsoever.

But I guess the narration that they wanted to tell was that, Sherlock will always be Moriarty's weakness, her achilles heel... And I get that. I just wish that they used Moriarty more than whatever events happened in S2 then chuck her back in the dungeons of the writers. (Though I am yet to continue my rewatch so maybe i'll have a different sentiment by then.)

It was rather a missed opportunity though to delay Moriarty's reveal so she could be a looming presence and make her an antagonist for a longer time. We could have had her and Sherlock go against each other more so they can build the archenemy trope. Since pre-Moriarty, Sherlock has only seen M (Moran) as his true archenemy. We could have seen Joan getting better at becoming a detective as she starts to get better at solving Moriarty.

Don't get me wrong, I love this show and it's still one of my comfort shows upto this day. I just wished that they used Moriarty more in this series ;; especially because the idea of Irene, being Sherlock's greatest love, is also Moriarty is so juicy for me, I wish I have more of that on my plate hahajdhdkjlhfg