I’m on season 2, dude just got pissy at his mom for lying about Thea and “making him a liar”. How can he say that with a straight face, what a fucking hypocrite lmao.

We get it. This Arrow is similar to batman. Now shut the fuck up about it

I grew up watching the arrowverse and stopped watching around arrow season 6. It’s been a long time since watching these shows as the aired on tv and I decided to come back and rewatch these shows I used to cherish so dearly. Also to see if what problems I had carried on now that I have matured.

After rewatching the first 3 and a half seasons I think I can officially say Felicity Smoke it’s not just fundamentally a mistake but just a bad person.

My first time thinking this was around the start of season two. As her character in the first season is cohesive and coherent with consistent motivations and morals. She was never meant to be a consistent character as in season one is was well known Oliver was extremely good at technology and only needed felicity on more complex problems he couldn’t solve. This era of her character is the best imo, her obnoxious personality and humor gets extremely old very fast, so keeping her in smaller scenes with less lines while still making her make a difference is a great balance.

Then halfway through the season Walter gets kidnapped and Oliver gets shot by his mom and lets felicity in on the operation. She states that she is only there to find Walter, afterwards she is gone. This gave her character sufficient motivation and believability as her personality type wouldn’t probably end up there otherwise. We see this when she repeatedly has issues in the following episodes with how Oliver’s handles his business. For the rest of season one she is a very good character with my only problem being personal as I don’t like her stuttering blabbering humor.

Now is when the problems start. Right at the start of season two you notice a strong shift in the scene dynamics with felicity now driving conversations and scenes. This comes as such a shift as in the beginning of season 1 she felt like such a side character, important but a side character nonetheless. After the general audiences reception towards her they increased her screen presence giving her more lines and more time to shine. This is fundamentally flawed as her character was never designed or meant to lead storylines and scenes, giving everything she does this lack of weight and feeling all for the need of a joke. This season is also when the iconic, Oliver yells felicity cause he’s backed in a corner and then she yells working on it then she does the thing or doesn’t. It’s an overly used trope that sparks when this character inherently doesn’t have the depth you’re trying to give them. Other than her feeling like such a forced character season two is the last time felicity has any redeemable scenes at all.

Season three is an absolute cluster fuck of a shit show with her character. From her being way to emotional for no reason to her saying some of the most abhorrent things I’ve ever heard from a characters mouth that ties into her straight up mental manipulation in order to get with Oliver. To strike on my first point, this first comes apparent with Sara’s death. It’s absolutely insane that someone who barely even knew Sara is more emotionally distraught and has more lines about her death than it feels like even Oliver does. I know this comes to the surface when she confronts him about being so cold but I still stand to reason my point as Sara was a girl he knew his entire life, thought he killed twice, and was in love with multiple times. Yet he gets maybe 3 scenes actually addressing her death with one of those being with felicity, meanwhile felicity has multiple scenes with ray, laurel, Oliver and seems to care more than anyone else. This unexplained emotion I believe also stands with her anger towards Merlin. Yes Merlin is a mass murderer and has killed so many even excluding the earthquake, yet when felicity has never even had a scene with Merlin to my knowledge I don’t understand why she’s so incapable of seeing why Oliver might need him for the time being. If anyone should want Merlin dead it’s Oliver, hands down no questions asked. Yet it seems felicity has some past with him we just don’t know or something cause she’s more angry than laurel or Thea, so much so it leads into my second point. Her telling Oliver that she doesn’t want to be a woman he loves. First of all I will say her thought process isn’t without merit, the problem is the manipulation and just abhorrent nature of telling someone such a thing. The scene I’m talking about does nothing to Oliver other than make him think he’s incapable of love, that everyone he loves gets hurt and he can’t care for them. This is something Oliver already tells himself every day and had been trying to overcome that for felicity. When she reassures everything he already tells himself all that’s going to do is lock him out of making new connections. Make him scared for his loved ones and rethink what he’s doing. Whilst him working with Merlin is something he should rethink, I don’t think making him rethink his life and loves is deserved. This sets him straight up for when felicity tells him she’s willing to take the risks. This is manipulation. She gets with him for a time only to them reassure him he cannot be with anyone without hurting them, isolating him for herself so she can let him know she’s the one girl that’s willing to take on anything leading them together. Oliver may have been in love with her for a while but he would know there are others out there who won’t get together than break things of twice in as many season, one being her leaving him before they get married. Which leads me to my finale.

Felicity leaving Oliver for having a kid is the most lowlife thing I’ve ever seen. In the setup for the legends of tomorrow crossover when Oliver first finds out he has a kid he learns from the blood test Barry gives him. Felicity is there and finds out at the exact same time. Then Oliver goes to talk to Samantha where he is told that he cannot tell anyone and if he does then he will lose his son and not be able to see him. Then at most a few hours later he gets back to the house and Felicity confronts him, breaking up with him. This is absurd to break up with him for not telling her something he just leaned not too long ago. Oliver’s world is blowing up and she takes that time to blow it up some more. Whilst not being in the continuity it’s now an established part of her character, further established by what happens later in the season. Leaving him the second time around right before the wedding is just as if not worse. Yes it’s a longer period of time for Oliver to process and tell her yet the ultimatum he had didn’t change, he still had to keep his son secret to see him. In the scene he’s telling everyone he has a son he lists those who know, Barry who helped him find out, Malcom who found out on his own, and Thea who found out through being his campaign manager. After these three are named Felicity says it would be easier to know those who don’t know which just doesn’t even make sense cause that’s it. After this Oliver talks with John, Laurel, and had already talked to Thea who had all completely and totally understood the dilemma and ultimatum that he was put in. Meanwhile felicity is talking to Samantha who is explaining the situation Oliver was put in, which is met by snarky remarks from felicity, as Samantha says she didn’t know who Oliver was refereeing to him as the Arrow and Felicity says that’s going around referring to the lying. Even though she’s currently being explained to that he had the most valid reason ever to keep this truth and it’s barely even lying. After all this reasoning and understanding the episode ends with her leaving Oliver. While yes it’s hard to marry someone who’s keeping secrets, this is a secret that he couldn’t tell if he wanted to. On top of this, she’s leaves him right after making a message to William that he cannot be in his life, destroying Oliver in the process. Instead of being there for him she only thinks for herself and is incapable of listening to anything anyone has to say.

This is about 10+ years of thoughts coming to the surface and I know there are a lot of people who don’t agree and a lot that do. I just wanted to provide my opinion no matter how insignificant it may be.

And yes, she apologized for it, but it’s shown through her character that she’s willing to do it again. In episode 5x12, she was willing to send the nuke to a “less populated area.” Rory then asked her, “like Havenrock,” and then Felicity just deflected and said, “we don’t have time to revisit that.” And yes, that’s true, they didn’t. However, you did have 5 minutes to figure out another plan that didn’t result in yet another massacre event. And idk if anyone else ever caught on to this, but around this time in the show, she begins to develop a personality/moral compass similar to that of Amanda Waller; she’s willing to sacrifice the some to save the many. A very ends justify the means type of vibe to her character. She tends to get on Oliver about his choices, but she’s able to get away with a whole-ass massacre and nobody shames her for it nor brings it up enough. Even when Rory first left the team, he told Oliver that he found out about Felicity nuking his home, and Oliver kind’ve just brushed it off and excused it. Like wtaf is wrong with this plot point in the show?! It’s giving plot armor.

Edit: I meant to put massacre. Not genocide! Apologies!

Let me explain myself. While the character is cool as all hell, and seems to embody Black Canary, I think there are more reasons she should die than live. And not a single one of them is that Laurel was Black Canary in the comics.

Firstly, tearing Sara away from Oliver is arguably one of the most logical ways for Slade to hurt Oliver. While Diggle, Thea, and Felicity dying could crush him, Slade hates Sara and will most likely find some kind of Poetic Justice killing her or making him "choose" to kill her (in the same way Ivo did.)

Second, if Slade doesn't kill anyone Oliver is close to, I think it will make his character appear to be less threatening if they continue to keep him on as a recurring antagonist, which I hope they do.

Third, and it pains me to say this, but Caity Loitz seems to be struggling through her role. I don't like criticizing others, but there almost never any conviction in any of her lines. I have never believed anything she's said on the show. I know Amell's acting used to be rusty and it improved, but I could see a gradual change. No doubt the Huntress was on hiatus because of Jessica DeGouw, but supposedly she's improved and I'd love to see that be true. Katie Cassidy has been phenomenal and believable for the entire series. Laurel gets a lot hate, but she also gets knocked down, and it's almost understandable how she acts. If any actress could make me believe that Laurel cleaned up her act and eventually reach Sara's level (which in itself is hard to believe) it would be Katie Cassidy.

Edit: Maybe she shouldn't die, but I really don't think she should be a regular. Recurring on special episodes would be fantastic. Sara isn't a bad character by any necessary means, and just because I hate Caity's acting doesn't mean she should be killed off.

So I'm watching the season 1 finale and Oliver goes to Tommy's work and tells him he should try patching things up with Laurel and make their relationship work

Then, Oliver goes to Laurel's and announces he wants to be with her. Yay! Wait...

Tommy, on his way to see Laurel, sees them doing it (through an open window! Seriously, guys?!). I don't really like Tommy, but that's just wrong.

Do you want supervillains? ...because that's how you get supervillains.

REPOST, COURTESY OF MLOOMMLOONGAYMAN. IT'S DELIVERING A SIX MONTH OLD JOKE THAT'S REMINDING YOU OF THE ORIGINAL. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ON TOP/ALLTIME FOR QUITE A WHILE.

I’ve had people get mad at me for saying this, but please hear me out. Their relationship up until the last seasons had a lot of issues and could even be considered toxic, but in the kast few seasons they actually got to a healthy place and had overcome most of the issues in their relationship. I think its great that unlike a lot of tv relationships, Oliver and Felicity had serious problems in their relationship, but by the end actually managed to overcome instead of the problems just disappearing. For example, Olivers trust issues which is one of the main struggles in their relationship. In the final seasons, he gets to a place where he doesn’t hide things from Felicity anymore and you can see the trust they have between them. I think their relationship in the final seasons is such a beautiful and healthy one, which is rare to find on shows, and thats the reason I love them together so much.

Would love to her other opinions on the subject

So apparently the effects of the pit are "it will make you freak out till you take a nap, and then your memory will be a little bit foggy for a few hours, then you'll be totally fine." SMH what a waste of a plot line.

As title implies, I have what is bound to be an unpopular opinion. I was very disappointed with season 3. I love 'Arrow', I've always loved it and will continue watching it until the end of time, but just because I love it doesn't mean I can't criticize it.

Part of the reason one falls in love with Arrow is that we recognize that it can be cheesy. The cliche lines and predictable plot is something you learn to love and look forward to. But this slight cheesiness has turned bad writing at this point. 'Arrow' has turned into a soap opera. I'm not the only person thinks so. Every single one of my friends who used to watch Arrow has stopped because they thought it was getting way too corny this season. I live for Arrow, but I was really really disappointed after the first few episodes. It doesn't have the flare it use to. The writing has become melodramatic. I say this because there is almost no subtext to any scene, and when there is, it is very 'on the nose'. It's too simple and obvious. There is literally no complexity anymore and this makes everything seem hollow. And beyond being melodramatic, the dialogue isn't just predictable at this point, it is utter cliche. I cringe after some lines. If anything I feel as if they are beginning to repeat lines from previous episodes.

I can't be the only one thinking that the plot this season has been weak. It just doesn't feel complex at all. They opened up the season with an episode where The Count comes back for a third time, like come on guys. Furthermore, the authors literally give younthe theme for the rest of the season on a platter, Oliver's conflict with himself. They literally gave it to us, no work involved. The episodes seem sporadic with no room to connect with the characters well. The only reason I remained involved was because I re watched the whole season back to back, forcing me to remain invested. I was hoping that after rewatching it I'd change my mind about this season, but it has only enforced my initial distaste.

This show could be brilliant, they could make it so much more complex, gritty, realistic but they are settling for below average writing. I feel like I've lost the show I love. I don' know whether this is a problem that has always existed and I have never noticed or if it just started this season.

I posted this because I know I cannot be the only one who felt that this season was lacking. I want to hear what you guys think. What has bothered you this season? Do you disagree with what I've said? Don't downvote just because you don't agree. Let's make this a constructive discussion.

TL;DR: I didn't like the third season. Too cheesy, cliche, weak plot, bad dialogue. There is more but I didn't want to keep writing. Let's have a civil verbal joust on the matter. Don't insta-downvote, please.

I'm re-watching season 1 and season 2, and she's just a constant moody bitch, who's always putting people down and trying to belittle everyone. And when she has a problem, it's because she's "gone through so much". She was an annoying and overly-dramatic character. If she died in season 2, I don't think anyone would have been that pissed. Especially if Sara became Black Canary instead.

I honestly don't think season 3 or 4 re-deemed her enough and the only reason her dying is the biggest injustice to fans isn't even so much that she's Oliver's soulmate from the comics, it's just Felicity sucks even more.

I'm just saying, in my opinion, the Laurel character is overrated by some due to the growing Felicity hate and Katie Cassidy love is also because of that, because she's not that great.

We literally have a Deathstroke situation going on. The Admins have failed this Website, and only Arrow can save it.

Obviously a joke, but shouldn't we also have this conversation?

Green arrow. Oliver. Queen. Stop killed my boyfriend Damien. Darhk Malcolm Merlyn. I can stop you. I can killed you. I can kidnapper. His son Williams Clayton. I can killed your girlfriend. Emily bett Richards killed best your friend. John Diggle. I am work to glades. With Malcolm. Merlyn. give me jobs. Glades. I can killed you you life pain. From my name is Malcolm Merlyn. I can killed Donna. Smoak your mother in law

Seriously guys, I’m miffed.

We finally go from Mr Terrific on TV to Mr Terrific on Movies. And not one mention of him being gay??

It’s like they don’t even know the character at all. They clearly did not do their research from studying Arrow. SMH.

Marc Guggenheim.... the dude is just an A grade cunt. I read here a while back and someone wrote about how Joss Weadon getting off social media was due to fans spamming him. the Redditior then mentioned how social media is affecting Marc's work and how Marc is one of those people who constantly wants praise. That redditor was spot on! Because Marc and now the entire Arrow writing team has pandered to a small, yet vocal portions of the fans.

I've messaged him multiple times asking about various characters like "Will we ever see Huntress return", "Will we ever see Question" and a few about Laurel, BoP, Diggle and Thea. And yet I never got a respond. I saw this a while back and it really does show the direction the show has gone. I don't mind if the writers like Olicity but they don't bother about the rest that much. Last season Wendy mentioned how the writers "fight" about who gets to write Felicity/Olicity lines. Like WTF!

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/118963876229/you-told-us-once-that-we-lauriver-fans-should-be

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/107963430044/please-let-every-delusional-lauriver-shipper-know