Not trying to be a pendant, it's just a little jarring to read!

Can I be apart of your proposed utopia? I promise to leave my God, guns and grits behind.

My biggest concern with the YesCalifornia movement is that any talk about leaving the United States bring with it a collection of Americans foaming at the mouth for their chance to reenact the civil war.

Is there a probable path to independence that doesn't involve going up against a president who had to told several times in a conversation why we shouldn't use the nuclear option as a first strike? Or a way we can approach this that would discourage the same deplorable we're trying to abandon from joining in?

So bear with me a moment. Assume that a majority of Californians decide it's lime to leave the union, and a majority of the rest of the nation would love to see us go. All legal hurdles swept aside, our two nations parting ways as amicably as possible, with as little economic disruption as possible.

Yes, yes, I know, we're already in fantasy land. But bear with me.

California already has Legislative, Executive, and Judicial governmental organs, so while crafting a new government out of whole cloth might be a pleasant goal, it should be rather lower priority.

The Californian Military Department (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Military_Department), which contains the California National Guard, already demonstrates a fighting force comprised of California funded, native Californian soldiers with tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. I do not believe we have any Basic Training facilities in California, so sustainment will require new facilities here in caifornia. Also the Californian Naval Militia was only reactivated last year- it's not ready to be a Californian Coast Guard on it's own yet.

Water and Energy independence. The current trade balance with the lower 47 may work short term, but we should be ready in case relations ever turn sour. An independent energy network, and a water supply that does not rely on the US to play nice with the Colorado river. Yes, I know, no water to California means no veggies to the states, but we have to be ready for a US foreign policy that accepts that kind of disastrous exchange.

International Relations. As a pacific nation, we have a natural interest in the other pacific nations- Japan, china, Russia, the Korean Peninsula, Philippines, Australia, and so on. This means Embassys, but it also means spycraft, in whatever modern forms it takes. We will need our own CIA equivalent, but also our own NSA- our offense and defense teams. We'll also need other federal level agencies that have no equivalent at the State level- like NIH, or the AEC. There's going to be more, and 5 years after we thing we know them all, we're going to discover ones we missed. This is going to cut into that "we don't need to send taxes to the federal government anymore" money that's supposed to solve all our problems.

We need to handle not just the State Debt, but our fairly apportioned part of the National Debt as well.

All this is much higher priority than Olympic swim teams wearing the Bear and Star. And I've probably missed quite a few more. What would you add to this list? What can you say about any of these points? Any easy solutions I'm overlooking? Discuss.

You can read the Blue Book here: http://www.yescalifornia.org/calexit_blue_book

On Page 7, it says the following: "4. DEBT AND TAXES Since 1987, California has been subsidizing the other states at a loss of tens and sometimes hundreds of billions of dollars in a single fiscal year. As a result, we are often forced to raise taxes and charge fees in California, and borrow money from the future to make up the difference. This is partly why California presently has some of the highest taxes in the country, and so much debt. Independence means that all of our taxes will be kept in California based on the priorities we set, and we will be able to do so while repaying our debts and phasing out the current state income tax."

I naively repeated this talking point to someone, who then asked where I was getting my numbers. I knew it would be a waste of time to cite anything other than a credible source, but the Blue Book does not cite ANY source for ANY of these claims. Not a single one! I tried to independently verify the claim about how much we lose subsidizing other states per year, but I couldn't do so - in fact, I discovered that the Federal Government spent a few billion more in California than it collected from us in 2013.

I also asked @YesCalifornia on Twitter about this, and they didn't respond. Not responding to a question like that makes me very suspicious. It's perfectly reasonable to ask, and would arm proponents with what they need to win debates, but they have remained silent so far.

I would like to believe that this movement is founded on a realistic basis, but without credible sources, I can't even defend it to myself. I am not interested in being a mouthpiece for an organization that just says whatever it wants, and never worries about proving anything.

The leader of this movement is all of 30 years old. That's not exactly well-seasoned, especially for an undertaking as monumental as this. The fact that there's no proof of these statements just makes it all look like so much hot air.

Here is what I propose:

ALL statements made in the Blue Book MUST include citations to CREDIBLE SOURCES. Not what some guy on the subway said, not some article on Wikipedia. An original, credible source needs to be provided for all of these claims. Otherwise, they may as well not be there.

They are generally similar in political stances and would create a stronger economy and resource diversity. Thoughts?

Oregon also has a movement they were already voting on: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/after_trump_victory_oregonians.html

Just that. Weirdest things had happened, so why not...

How can I help this movement get started? My names Jon Weber and I'm 17, I live in Redding California. I know I'm not an adult but I feel like I could help in some way to make California it's own nation.

We are big enough to be self sufficient, and America is going down the shitter.

What would keep USA from invading? Not like we would have a large army to protect ourselves right?

I 100% support Yes California and hope to see California break away and become its own country in the future!

Good luck to my Californian friends!

We've got a log in common and some notable differences.

How do you feel about an alliance to allow things like travel, free trade, mutual protection, etc.. What should and should not be on this list?

How do you feel about Federating and creating a government for some basic handling of things like currency? What would you like to see such a federal governement handle? What should be explicitly handled by the member nations of that federation?

This is being cossposted to r/YesCalifornia and r/Cascadia.