If Rhaenyra was doing this because of legitimate fear of Bastardy and a show of Public shame it would be one thing for him to say this, but that's not why Rhaenyra said not the time and Corelys asked this small and ONLY favor so that he could make up with his kids and give them the ONE thing THEY asked for 😐.

Edit: Corelys talked about giving him his name before Jace even died. Joffery is still supposed to be a Velaryon as well. He was going to anoint his sons BEFORE it was "convenient" as everyone likes to put it. Again this issue isn't about Bastardy as I said, it's about Rhaenyra not coming to terms with her sons death and turning down Corelys for no reason and Alyn not being mad at BOTH of them. Corelys deserves any heat his sons give him, but Corelys is ALSO justified in being mad at Rhaenyra. Y'all conveniently forget she could've legitimatized him at the Knighting. Literal 2 seconds worth of words.

First of all, I only remember their names when I literally search it up. Secondly, they are so mind-numbingly stale, boring and poorly acted that I just start watching my phone when they are on screen. No hate to the actors, who are probably lovely people, but why are we wasting time on them? Am I the only one?

Even Alicent, who is increasingly portrayed like a sociopath and is an obvious traitor to her family, is at least fun to root against, despite the stupidity of her storyline.

I will start by saying it has been YEARS since we saw the driftmark incident and I have seen so many still dragging it by saying so many things. Lets see all of them.

"Aemond stole Vhagar"

This is pathetic and stupid generally because Dragon's are not slaves, and they other kids, while Daemon's daughters being some what understandable because they were grieving their mother, but the boys were just entitled. They had no reason to attack Aemond.

If that were the logic, Daemon should have murdered Rhaenys for claiming his mom's dragon likely before he had a chance.

"Aemond paid for the dragon with his eye!"

No because why, as grown people we are using a child's words trying to comfort his grieving mother as something of a literal fact?

By that Logic, I didn't see Daemon pay for Caraxes with his eye? Or Viserys pay for Balerion, the dragon of a conqueror, with his eye?

"Aemond was going to kill them!"

This generally comes in different ways.

. "He said he will burn them all with his dragon."

First of all, thats what any targaryen says at any minor inconvenience. Second, how was he going to that right now? Because then that would have been an immediate threat.

Was he going to drag four of them out? Is he superman?

Or was he going to drag one out while he expected other's to watch? Because he isn't that stupid.

Or was he going to fit Vhagar in that corridor some how?

Which means there was no immediate threat of death by Vhagar for these kids

. "He was going to kill Jace with the rock he had and thats why Luke took his eye in defence."

First of all, how and why did Aemond have a rock? Because they had been on top of him beating him up and he had scrambled and picked up the rock in self defence.

Then when they were all standing Aemond out the rock DOWN and called them bastards. Which honestly, is completely normal considering they had been beating him up and he simply insulted them, with the truth by the way and Jace choses to bring out his dagger and swing at Aemond multiple times.

Again, if Aemond had not been training under Cole, he would not have avoided the dagger and DIED. That was the direct threat, the boy trying to stab Aemond.

And Aemond gets the dagger out of his hand and then stands over him with a rock.

Now, after being beaten and attempted murder, I think its natural that Aemond had a rock.

Again, the death of one of Rhaenyra's kids is impossible because as someone who has taken a construction brick to the head when I was 11, by a grown person, with a rock that fits in the hand of a 10 year old is NOT enough to kill anyone unless he is physically much more powerful and repeatedly bashes Jace's head, which we know is not possible because the moment Aemond would have been distracted by bashing Jace's head, the three other kids would get him off.

The only one in immediate danger was Aemond and he lost his eye because two entitled kids chose to bring a dagger.

With the season being included, the show really portrays how misogyny works and you can unfortunately see it not just in how the characters are, but also the opinions of the viewers.

“A man is allowed to react, a woman can only overreact” is the quote that comes to mind after the episode finale.

Look at all the men who did terrible shit and reacted horribly vs Rhaenyra, who was kind and understanding from the beginning and genuinely tried to do good. Like every breath she takes she is criticised left and right. Even by other women. And they all view her as incompetent when she is literally facing countless problems while grieving the loss of her loved ones and being betrayed and questioned left and right. And when she finally snaps, they say she overreacted. In fact, her reaction is the best possible reaction and it’s what anyone in her place, man or woman, would have done.

Anyway, just wanted to share my 2 cents here cos I think it’s very an important thing to highlight.

Cannot edit title: Yes, OBVIOUSLY WE ALL KNOW they are not legit, but her perpetual indignation that anyone should notice this, and public denial is the problem.

1 It's why Aemond loses his eye in S1e7: he is simply defending himself for riding Vhagar when the brothers attack him, and his 'insulting' them is just him telling the truth.

2. It causes King Viserys to look like a fool, as he feels he has to believe her tales. His stubborn acceptance of her word harms his bond with Alicent. She uses his faith in her truthfulness to deceive him, and the repercussions spread throughout the court.

3. It deprives the boys of their actual father (Harwin has to be sent away after he shows too much bias and affection in the sword fighting lesson) and thus indirectly leads to Harwin's death. This is again part of propping up the lie about their birth.

4. It leads to the court becoming a mockery, where everyone has to pretend not to see reality, just to keep their position or life; it thus legitimizes a culture where truth means little to nothing.

I used to root for her because she was the original choice, and because Daemon was on her side. But the lying and the defense of the lying is too much. (I don't care how justified she is; I don't condone lying). However, I. have to to add that Alicent's misinterpretation of Viserys' last words is equally wrongheaded. She should've gone and gotten a witness, and certainly shouldn't be so sure of herself. Very self-serving. ESH: Everyone Sucks Here.

I liked the fact she was only one in the cast of sad incestous murderers who had straight up good time. And even liked her being overly edgy (such as the ship named Bitchfist). Like yea, if you are openly queer in world like that, you propably don't give a frak about what others think about you in general. Or even actively enjoy making them uncorfortable.

I hoped we would actually see some development of the "being bi is as edgy as being lesbian, right" and "I am still straight, right?" romance.

Kinda sad they assassinated her character like that. In both senses of that word.

I might have genuinely entered my "if this is canon, I am hitting AO3" arc. Is it just me and the actors who apparently liked them being a bit more romantic as well, or are there others?

I know we all love a good under dog story but Ulf is just taking up space at this point. From the beginning, he treated the servants at Dragonstone very badly, demanding more wine, just acting very entitled.

He doesn’t listen to the rules.
He makes a valiant effort to complain every episode.
I understand wanting to go back to the Inn to hangout with his old friends but he still gets caught within the city limits after he was told plenty of times to not go back.
He’s a dragon rider but he still thinks like a common man. It’s like he doesn’t want to leave his old life. I was hoping Daemon killed him in the last episode. It’s almost like when Tony Soprano killed Christopher Moltisanti because he knew eventually Christopher could jeopardize everything for him. I know this is insensitive but he needs to go.

I’m not saying you can’t dislike a character, but the level of vitriol and fervor people have towards him doesn’t make sense to me considering that he is no worse than other male character in the series and, in fact, in my respects is better than many of the other characters.

What confuses me is how Criston Cole, who’s transgressions are mostly being rude ass hypocrite is taken as more of an afront than male characters we’ve seen literally bash their wife’s skull in on screen lol. Like yes, he called Rhaenyra a cunt and slept with Alicent despite it going against his supposed morals but Daemon is beloved despite choking Rhaenyra last season and grooming her as a literal child. I find it odd that many of the fans claim they hate Criston because of his misogyny but once again, he has exhibited far less overt misogyny and violence against women than one of the favored male characters in the show?

It seems to me people don’t like Criston solely because he’s a man that’s hypocritical and rude, rather than actually being against misogynistic or “incel” behavior. I mean, I hate to beat the point over the head (pun intended) but whose more of a vengeful incel, the dude that called a girl a cunt or the man who chokes and kills women and molests little girls?…and I’m not saying people can’t like Daemon as a character—hell I love Aemond and Aegon despite hating their actions because I like their characterization and arcs—but don’t try to stand on some moral high ground when a lot of people who hate Criston don’t actually care, but are pressed because a handsome male character is crude and didn’t side with Rhaenyra.

Also, I can’t help but roll my eyes at how a large sector of the fandom refuses to engage with Criston’s character on a deeper level because they’re so determined to dislike him. Yes he’s flawed, but so are all the characters because the writers dropped the ball on many fronts, but I do find myself feeling for his position and what he says. I think a lot of people don’t care to realize it because he’s a man, but someone of lower class who is essentially used by the wealthy in every way (physically, sexually, emotionally) can definitely lead anyone to mentally deteriorate to the point of suicidal ideation as seen in the last episode.

Criston clearly holds onto being the greatest warrior and having a hero’s death because that’s all he has—his body—it’s the only thing people value from him (whether it be in war or in bed). I can’t help but feel that if Criston’s gender was flipped and he was a non-white coded woman who had to work herself to the top, all the while being fucked on by princes and kings yall would look at his character A LOT differently.

Once again, I’m not saying anyone has to like Criston or dislike other characters but the level of hate the character gets just seems like fandom collective brainrot and fan war tribalism than actual dissection of the character.

I kind of like Aemond now too. Feels like he is standing alone against everyone.

Ormund Hightower was actually showing steady, functional leadership this episode. But because the showrunners can’t handle the Greens looking structurally superior to Rhaenyra’s chaotic small council, they immediately forced him to do something cartoonishly evil to "course-correct" the audience.

It’s completely transparent. The moment a Green character shows real competence, the writers panic.

I broke down this "Ormund Paradox," Rhaenyra's lack of leadership, and the show's bad fanfiction tendencies in my new review: https://youtu.be/RnpLKniRhVY?si=RusXnVhJPpZri33K

i always see people commenting on how much the show centers itself around their relationship but i personally don't mind it.

I loved their friendship and it just sucks they were torn apart by the realm's politics.

i wish they would forgive each other and be friends again that's all i want :(

House of the Dragon is the epitome of wasted potential and structural incompetence. Between GRRM being scammed into taking Ryan Condal’s side only for him to completely wipe his ass with the source material, the bewildering changes from an anti war tragedy into someone’s yaoi fanfic, and what I can only describe as a misogynist’s interpretation of feminism, it’s a mess.

Plenty YouTubers have pointed out the numerous problems with the story, plot, and characters. But today I think that one of the biggest, if not THE biggest issues with this show, is that its so fucking boring.

I can’t believe that we will have three seasons with barely anything happening. The fact that an in-universe history without any POV based upon the Rashoman effect has a better structure and cohesive narrative than a prime time television show.

Of course if you haven’t read Fire & Blood and do not intend to read it, you may be wondering what I mean. 

I’ll give you a hint, what is the most expensive aspect of any fantasy show or medieval epic? That’s right, the battle scenes.

There are approximately 17 major battles, duels, and skirmishes during the Dance. Adapting all of these would have been impossible even with the $200 million budget. Some would inevitably need to be cut. But unfortunately Ryan Condal and Sara Hess have decided to go the opposite direction and have cut nearly all the epic, bloody battles that should have at least taken up a decent chunk of the episodes time instead of the cringeworthy dialogue and character drama that instead took up most of the time.

What Goes Into A Battle

Battles, whatever the medium, are as costly as they are in real life, though instead of casualties and destruction, they cost time and capital. For simplicity’s sake let’s stick with cinema instead of comics or video games.

Now its very important to consider that a lot of a budget in a motion picture doesn’t go into the VFX and cinematography but also costuming, set design, and most importantly the salary of the cast. According to standard industry rates, prior fame and amount of screen time is what determines the size of the paycheck. 

Matt Smith for instance gets between $300,000 to $400,000 an episode. Unfortunately HBO doesn’t give transparent accounting of things like this so we have to rely on estimates and leaks.

The average episode gets just about $20 million per episode. Using the minimum total pay, it could be in the range of $13.5 million, leaving 6 million per episode. Now this may not seem like a ton of money to spend but keep in mind that the critically panned season of The Boys had an episode budget of $10 million and most of that went to the cast and crew.

A battle that takes place the whole episode is even more expensive. Blackwater for instance took $8 million and The Battle of the Bastards was $11 million. However some of these battles can have shall we say sparse description in the source material such as the Battle of The Burning Mill don’t need an entire episode to be shown. Between six-ten minutes not counting character set up and the depiction of the aftermath would be sufficient. Merging battles would also solve one of the major issues too.

Battles take up a lot of time, energy, and money in terms of sets and extras. There is only so much time you can shoot per season so it’s important to get them as right as possible. CGI can only do so much to cut costs and safety for both the cast members whether they be human or animal is paramount. The logistics of a fictional battle are just as important to a good battle scene as they are in war. If something can’t be done legally or ethically then it must either change or be excised.

Here’s the thing though: Money is only half the battle. You must have talent and experience if you are to be victorious in making a battle scene. And unlike Miguel Sapocnik, Ryan has no experience directing or planning out battles at all, relying solely on the discretion of the crew to make their half baked dribble work.

Miguel should have been the sole show runner all along. Not only did he have experience directing some of the most spectacular battle sequences in the original show but also appeared to be more loyal to GRRM’s vision regardless of any hiccups on the way.

Ryan Condal is simply ill tasked to be a show runner of a major epic fantasy series. His prior credits before HOTD included two unsuccessful Hollywood blockbusters and a television show on USA Network.

Meanwhile Miguel Sapocniks credits include a long career in plenty of cult and Emmy nominated television series. Even at his worst, the three episodes he wrote for the show were high quality and you can’t say he hasn’t had time to fix his mistakes.

Ryan may claim that adaptations require streamlining and that GRRM simply doesn’t know the realities of television but here’s the thing. The battles weren’t the only thing cut from the show. Entire plot lines and character arcs which would have required little in the way of budget, were entirely removed despite being in Fire & Blood. Dialogue and character motivations have been changed until they are unrecognizable and some of the changes are not only inferior to the source material but also of poor writing quality in general.

Instead of doing their best to adhere to GRRMs vision, Ryan and Sara have instead changed the story so much to the point that he has disowned the adaptation and the pair have entirely stopped even the pretense of following its spirit. It's their baby now and unfortunately they are poor parents.

How To Do A Battle

Even if we accept the reasonable argument that more than a couple battles per season were beyond Ryan Condal’s ability, was there really no chance of adapting said tussles? This is where Ryan should have taken a step back and wondered if he was truly cut out to be the sole show runner. A show runner is more than a producer or writer, he is the first among equals of the entire team, responsible for making sure everything runs on time. He is the architect that directs the carpenters to start a major problem.

My concern isn’t that Ryan was automatically incapable of writing battles. In terms of spectacle the Battle of Rook’s Nest and The Gullet were amazing even if certain writing choices ruined them. My problem is that I don’t think he even tried. Below are four examples of battles that Ryan really should have tried to research before making such a costly decision.

Introduction

Now as you can see all four examples have their pros and cons but notice something odd? Each battle scene makes use of clever filming techniques and cost cutting measures to save time and money while making a great product. You cannot claim they didn’t have time because a typical season takes around 7-8 months. So even if they had to cut some battles for time and budget constraints, they could have easily done the none Dragon involved battles they cut such as the Burning Mill, Fishfeed, and Duskendale had they made the effort. The money traps would be any battle or duel that involves Dragons. And most importantly they do not account for modern techniques such as CGI and VFX.

This contrast was the cause of the split between Miguel and Ryan. Miguel wanted a dark, gritty anti war polemic, while Ryan wanted a Shakespearan drama. That’s not even getting into rumors that HBO refused to hire Miguel’s wife and the possibility that HBO was being stingy with the budget and artists are they have been in the pasts. This much like GOT was a victim of oversimplification and unnecessary changes that either bit the story in the ass or made certain things from the books impossible to film, self inflicted for the vision of the showrunner instead of the original writer.

Now season 2’s bad quality could be best explained as a victim of the strike, with first drafts and no rewrites. Unfortunately, Season 3 has revealed this to be a farce with the ridiculous and insulting changes. Even diehard supporters have cried foul.

I honestly have no hope for the future of the series. Ryan Condal is simply ill tasked to do a series like this and his justifications to his critics ring hollow as our his excuses. It is obvious that the man either didn’t read the source material or simply thinks his writing skill is better than it truly is. Hopefully, AKOTSK will have a decent run. I heard George is working hard on the next two novellas so maybe he’ll be motivated to finish something given his love for the series.

Sources

https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/1d3oksc/cast_of_season_2_ranked_by_pay_grade_according_to/

https://movie-locations.com/movies/b/Braveheart.php

https://theasc.com/article/japanese-method-for-ran-kurosawa/

https://variety.com/2016/film/news/lord-of-the-rings-making-of-backstory-business-1201936646/

https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/1ek077f/how_does_hotd_film_their_episodes/

https://web.archive.org/web/20240904154210/https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/09/04/beware-the-butterflies/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/george-rr-martin-interview-thrones-winds-dragon-knight-1236473519/

https://www.adweek.com/lostremote/know-why-house-of-the-dragon-co-showrunner-miguel-sapochnik-stepped-down/

It's my opinion. Aegon and Aemond would be better rulers than dumb and dumber

Have never watched a show where the main character is this hated. She’s the rightful heir but the haters would rather have Half-cooked Aegon whose only motivation is to get piss drunk and whore out all the baddies in kingslanding 🤷🏽‍♂️

I'm a Brazilian Game of Thrones fan, and I recently started watching House of the Dragon. I keep seeing people argue that Rhaenyra's sons are legitimate because both Laenor and the king acknowledged them as Laenor's children. But doesn't that contradict how legitimacy is supposed to work in Westeros?

I just love this show and the characters. Rhaenyra is so beautiful and I think the Targaryens are amazing. I just love how awesome Rhaenyra is she’s probably my favorite character along with Daemon.

I wont forsake my family

I understand, he’s funny and in this current moment in the show he’s easier to root for given that he’s struggled a lot recently. And finally after repeated streaks of bad luck he got a dose of something great (Sunfyre) come his way.

But are we forgetting that this guy was literally a rapist (he did it to one of the handmaids/servants). He’s a brat in the grand majority of the show, who always got what he wanted and was pretty much useless when needed of anything simple. And when he was forced to make decisions he was for the most part very incompetent like naming Criston Cole of all the people in Westeros he could have named as hand.

This isn’t some spew of hatred towards Aegon II or the greens, I’m not a die hard Rhaenyra or blacks fan. I’m genuinely curious what the appeal is, because I simply can’t get behind the character, and although you wanna root for the guy that gets knocked down, I feel as if the realm would be much better if he specifically was not in any position to hold power, given how he acted when he had it.

EDIT: I’m not saying Aegon is a poorly written character, I believe his personality/complexity is very intriguing and adds another dimension to the story. I’m just saying I don’t understand why people support/like him

The last few episodes I have no sympathy for Jace. I know he’s a teen but he talks to his mom with no respect and every scene it’s like he has a little fit. In ep 7 I kept thinking: rhaneyra- just tell him off and put him in his place

Aegon is a pos, but rhaenyra is equally useless like what has she done to be a 'deserving ruler'? Let's go over the show till now-

1. Harrenhal - Daemon's idea

2. Blockade - Corlys' idea

3. Relieve small folk with food baskets - Mysaria's idea

4. Dragons claimed by non-Targaryens - Jace's idea

5. Cats to ward off rats - Alyn's idea

6. Send dragon riders as envoys - Again Jace's idea

7. Name master of coin - Mysaria's idea

8. Fall of kings Landing - Alicent's proposition

Like what has Rhaenyra done exactly besides cry and whine and give a rat feast to the nobles which was the worst idea possible (you cannot run a monarchy without the rich)

What a waste of a good exchange

They had Halaena wanting to save her child. BOTH OF THEM, the unborn one and her daughter. Then all of a sudden completely stopped eating and then flung herself out the building. This season will forever be rooted in that bottom tier of ASOIAF adaptations alongside GOT S7 & S8.

And for people who do not know. GRRM wrote her to have another child and it was the loss of that child that caused her to give up on living. The show cut that completely and George talked about this in his blog and to some of his friends. This was the season that made him say it was no longer his story. He saw the outlines for the whole thing already years ago.

The double standards that people have against Rhaenyra on here is actually insane and y'all don't even realize it lol.

You praise a character for things that you will later judge Rhaenyra for. It's comical.

And it's always praising a male character just to then judge her, and what's worse is that you even describe the situations in different ways when you could definitely look at them the same, but you don't bc it's almost like y'all want to just hate on Rhaenyra. And it reeks of something that this fandom has a lot.

Anyway....

Edit: me having to edit this post just to say this almost proves my whole fucking point, I never said that she was or wasn't a good ruler, if y'all come here to mention that....do with that what you will. Bc I never did.