Speaking as a black man and a fan of the show and cast I find this defense of Hartley quite disappointing. Frankly I find it frustrating. There is a stickied post about standing with BLM yet when racist and misogynist tweets turn up all that goes out the window. It's easy to point at others and say they're the problem; but the rubber really hits the road when we have to hold ourselves to account.

Too many people are too quick to defend racism and misogyny as jokes. Racism and misogyny ruin lives. They kill. It's not funny. Casual racism is just as bad as overt racism. Too many are quick to say he's learned and changed. What evidence is there of that? You don't know him. You don't know if he's changed. Anyone can write an apology after they've been caught. Please stop with this he was young nonsense. He was in his 20s. Old enough to serve. Old enough to drink. Old enough to rent a car. He was a grown ass man and old enough to know not to say those things. Trayvon Martin was 17 when he was killed and was treated like a man; but Hartley gets to be a kid into his 20s?

To those who want to point to his friends defending him. Kudos to them I guess. To paraphrase Mark Twain "The proper office of a friend is to stand with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right." When you mess up friends should be there if not what are they. Just a reminder Harvey Weinstein had people defending him saying he never harassed me. Friends can't absolve someone of what they've done. And most importantly white people can't absolve other white people over the racist things they've said or done. So saying the "jokes" were old or not that bad means nothing. You weren't the target, you don't get to determine how bad it is.

The reason I find his defense so disheartening is because it shows just how hollow words can be. If these jokes had been anti Semitic and making fun of the Holocaust no one would be defending him. But black pain and the marginalization of women is so baked in to the status quo that it's considered normal. POC and women are just expected to deal with racism and misogyny and keep it moving. Do his words hurt? Sure. Get over it they're just words. We like this guy. What message does that send to the POC in this community?

Edit: ITT a lot of you are repeating the "It's just a joke." or "He's being edgy" talking point. Please explain what is edgy about "As a lad one of my favorite activities was kidnapping homeless women and cutting of their breasts." or "The only thing stopping me from doing mildly racists tweets is the knowledge that Al Sharpton wouldn't stop talking about me." Where exactly is the joke?

I randomly just played an episode from season 1 while having my dinner today and couldnt help but notice how good the show was before they started to involve iris in every single thing. Does anybody here even like Iris? What were the writers thinking

At first I didn’t get the hate until I got farther in the show. Now I’m on season 8 Jesus fucking Christ is her character and actor the most awful thing I’ve watch. The Cecile lovers this isn’t a post for you but the people who dislike let’s gather over our dislike for this cringey over dramatic character who believes she breaks barriers of common sense on emotions when it’s her just straining her face to tell a character something they already know

I’ve approximately watched this show for 19,710,000 minutes or 328,500 hours. Is this insane?

At this point, everyone and their mother has a different idea about who Wells is, and who Eddie is. And I think that speaks volumes about how well-written the show has been thus far.

That being said, the constant "theories" being posted are ruining the sub. I suggest banning all Wells/Eddie/RV theories until the end of the season.

Iris shouldn’t have figured out the answer, if anything Cisco or Killer Frost should’ve.

BUT, it would’ve made sense if Jesse Quick tapped Harrison Wells for like, a few seconds.

She could’ve been like “Dad, Barry is giving out. We don’t know what to do.”

And he should’ve said “Jesse, you’re more than capable. Just like your mother blah blah fixes their problem at the same time you have the speed force at your disposal, use it”

Not only would that have showed her to be powerful by learning Barry’s new Flashtime ability, she could’ve remembered “you have the speedforce at your disposal, use it”

She remembers how Barry escaped, she tells Barry, and he gets the ball, and BAM

HASHTAG FEMINISM

This is /r/flashtv not /r/cringe

Stop watching the show if you’re so hellbent on nitpicking and trashing the show so much, it’s that simple. Fans who do enjoy the show still will carry on, next.

I hate their ship barry deserve better i understand you are angry friends and me too why they put Barry with iris they should put party instead of iris patty is cute and clam

I mean, I get that it was inappropriate for Barry to do that, but she's his oldest friend and she's gonna say some shit like that and be shocked to find out Eddie punched him?

I mean, there was literally no reason for her to say that to Eddie. She already told Barry she wasn't into him. Telling Eddie was pointless and only going to cause a conflict.

Glad Caitlin saved the day.

To begin with I just flat out hate Iris, as does most of the fanbase as far as I can tell, putting that its weird that foster siblings got married aside, I cant stand Iris's personality, she reminds me of Amber from Invincible.

From what I remember Iris is the only love interest that gets mad at Barry for not telling her he is the flash, Linda just kind of went with it (albeit it was a while after they seperated) and Patty found out on her own (and not from some bs reason like Iris that could be chocked up to static). She pieced it together herself and she wasn't even mad about it, she told him she understood why he hid it, she just wanted him to be honest and she'd stay

Also Patty is a lot like Barry and somehow people are framing that to be a bad thing, when it comes to relationships opposites dont generally attract, a romantic relationship in which you have nothing in common is not going to be a healthy one, which further adds to my disdain for Iris x Barry, they aren't the least bit similar, Barry is science smart, Iris is more clever, Barry cares about others more than himself, and Iris seems to care more about herself than others.

In relationships common ground is good thing to have, it can help bonding, and as much as people demonize how Patty and Barry are similar in devoting their lives to avenging their fathers I can't see that as a bad thing. They both share a similar pain there, so they would better know what eachother is feeling, and would better know how to help eachother, Barry talked Patty out of shooting Mark Martin because he knew what she felt.

Iris and Barry seems so forced, if it wasnt a fictional show, that relationship would most likely never have worked. I also can't stand Iris's "We are the Flash" line, hardly anyone else in the Flash team ever uses it except her. Also I saw someone point out a while ago Iris had no interest in Barry until after its revealed he is the flash (except for that one kiss in the tidal wave episode that got erased).

As well as since the beginning of the show a line Barry said which I cant find the episode for but he says something along the lines of "You dont want to be with me and you dont want me to be with anyone else" to Iris, and its definetly true atleast to an extent, Barry confesses to Iris when she is with Eddie, She now knows his feelings. Barry gets with Linda, Iris tells Linda barry likes her to throw a wrench in it, Iris is visually annoyed when Barry has moments with anyone else, however after Eddie died it wasnt until they were recreating the particle accelerator explosion to get Barry his speed back that Iris told Barry she liked him, She didnt tell him until there was a chance she'd never get the chance to

I know its a show and went as planned but realistically had they not done the particle accelerator replication I feel like Iris wouldnt have told Barry how she felt and would have sat back and just throw wrenches in Barry's relationships.

Iris and Barry's relationship feels so forced and unrealistic, I feel like any relationship would have made the fans happier, Linda x Barry, Patty x Barry, Caitlin x Barry, virtually any other ship would likely be more realistic, feel more genuine, and just be less toxic

She's a bitch for a lot of the show but she just moans at Barry and Joe for not telling her and moaning at Barry cos he hadn't found Eddie yet.

Compared to when Laurel, Thea and Moira found out that Oliver was the Arrow, they were proud of him.

Saw a post about how Arrow S4 wasn't nearly as bad as Flash S9 and admittedly got triggered and needed to rant. Spewing bullshit about how everything this season is bad including the soundtrack - um excuse me? Fuck off with that, Blake Neely is as great as ever and honestly I even see people raving about the sound track (especially in the more dramatic 1 on 1 scenes) every week in the discussion threads. It's so abundant you guys don't actually know what you want or what's bothering you and you just come on here and complain about EVERYTHING. If I'm wrong, then by all means - send me clips from S9 that really show just how bad the soundtrack is. You can't, because it's fucking fine - it's just more buzzwords that you can easily use to tear down the show without ever expanding on it. "God, this season is so bad even the soundtrack and cinematography suck!" - fuck off with that.

You guys are living in a vaccuum and in a fantasy world with your expectations. This is a CW show with a CW budget - always has been, always will be. This goes all the way back to Flashpoint in S2 - people were expecting this huge universe wide event that was going to effect all the other shows in major ways and thought all the Arrow characters were going to be involved and all this - that was absolutely never going to happen in a 2 part episode of the Flash.

Would it have been a cool crossover or crisis type event in the future? Sure - but at the time it was announced it was the S2 opener of The Flash and that it was just going to be a Flash show only this sub was still up in arms about how it wasn't their fantasy live action shot-for-shot remake of the animated movie but with Arrow instead of Batman and still went into the episode with those expectations.

7 years later you guys are just doing the same thing - you make shit up in your head, circlejerk and hype each other up about it, then fling shit and act like toddlers when they don't deliver that (despite there never being any indication that we were going to get that from anywhere other than your own delusions).

Let's look at Cobalt Blue. Ever since the tiny little throwaway easter egg back in the S1 finale this sub has been screaming for Cobalt Blue. What exactly is it you guys want from this?

Cobalt Blue in the comics is something that this subreddit would throw a fucking FIT about if it got tis own story arc in the show. Turns out this entire time, Barry has had a long-lost twin who looks exactly like him, but they were separated at birth and literally no one had any idea he existed. He somehow ends up getting adopted and raised by the Thawnes.

This is EXACTLY the thing this sub would scream about: "pure CW", "what kind of soap opera bullshit is this?", "holy shit I thought this was a superhero show not days of our lives" etc. etc. etc. Cobalt Blue will NOT work on this show. The only way Eddie being Cobalt Blue makes sense is if they basically use the name 'Cobalt Blue' and make everything else completely OC (much like the character of Eddie himself) - which you guys will STILL be mad about and complain about.

Then it's going to be the whole "we waited since season 1 and this is all we got???" MAN that's on you! Cobalt Blue being included in the first place is just fan service. Just like the list of names of people who died during the particle accelerator that Wells listed in S1 (which included Ralph Dibny), just like Red Death, just like a ton of stuff. It's a superhero. They make little winkwink, nudgenudge references like that all the time.

And again - WHAT exactly have you been waiting for since S1? You guys clamor for CB but do half of you even know who he is in the comics? Or do you just hear 'Eddie is gonna come back as CB!' and spread that around and convince yourselves there is some huge amazing plot that they've had up their sleeves for the entire run of the show?

It was the exact same with Red Death - what on earth were you expecting? There's no Dark Multiverse in this show. There's no Bruce Wayne or Batman. There's Barry Allen up until this point has never really formally met or interacted with anyone in the Bat-family. You guys went full "Flashpoint" again where you decided "well, it should have been Oliver" (without understanding anything about the behind the scenes or if Stephen Amell would have been down for that or ANY of how the world actually works - just becuase you would have liked it to be Oliver doesn't mean the show can just snap their fingers and make that happen - and again, if your response is 'well Amell is coming back for a guest spot later in the season so he just should have been Red Death instead!' then you are just proving that you have no idea how this works). We were NEVER going to get the Red Death you guys wanted - especially considering this is a 13 episode season, and we know she's not even going to be in every episode.

Your expectations are asinine and unreal.

There's a LOT of fair criticism for this season and yeah, a lot of this is subjective. People here are pissed that Flash isn't using it's episodes for the Legends - spoiler alert, not everyone here likes or watches that show. For me personally - an episode focused on the Legends and wrapping up their story is jsut as bad as the Cecile-only filler episode. It's filler, unrelated to the story, they're beyond side characters they are NOT EVEN regular characters on the show, they're meaningless to the overall story. MAYBE they could have shoehorned Barry in more than they did in the Cecile episode but all of the things you guys complain about as for why the Cecile episode is the absolute worst thing in the world to ever happen to the entire Arrowverse (aside from the lack of Barry) would have all been the same for a throaway Legends wrap up. Which just shows that you guys don't care about being "objective" or the quality or whatever bullshit points you're all parroting - you just want your own personal headcanon/fanfic to be on screen.

There's a lot of valid points and criticisms to this show and this season - and it's definitely been a disapointment and underwhelming. But honestly, reading this subreddit is fucking insane. You guys don't know what you want, you just hate everything. You exaggerate and overblow everything out of proportions. Season 9 has even made some improvements (the cinematography and editing has been great - the new camera angles and shots really feel cinematic). But even the things that I generally agree with come down to you guys not living in reality.

Let's take Challegra:

• They've been teasing this for multiple seasons

• Both characters are series regulars for this season

• This is the final season of the show

It's one thing to not like this and wish it weren't the case - but if you go into this season and start flaming and getting upset and acting completely SHOCKED that they're spending time on wrapping this story arc up, then my dude you are not living in reality. Why on earth would you expect them to just totally drop this element forever and not even touch it? Honestly, for all you people that clamor about how shit the writing is, I think the real shitty writing would be setting up an arc and then just forgetting about it, no? Like, there's no pleasing you - they wrapped it up less than halfway through the season. There's going to be drama/romance/boring/etc elements here.

• We've had Barry not be able to catch up with a guy on a motorcycle.

• We've had a season long villain be a guy with a knife that dampens meta powers who Super Mario jumps into oblivion every encounter.the

• Thawne got an entire universe of Nazis to invade the world, interrupt Barry's wedding, kill one of Barry's old mentors and friends, and Barry doesn't even so much as arrest him or capture him. He just lets him go free with no consequences.

• Joe West walked into a room and saw a guy he thought was dead and hated him so much he didn't say a word or ask a single question, just pulled out his gun and unloaded bullets into him. Over the years that person would go on to cause many more deaths (including Joe's!!!), trauma, and prove to be extremely difficult to defeat or stop - and when he almost ends up dying (as a consequence of his own actions!!), Joe then proceeds to threaten to disown Barry and Iris if they don't save his life.

This show was never a masterpiece. It never claimed to be. It never promised to be. Stop acting like this came out of nowhere and is so sudden. Stop acting like this is suddenly the worst thing ever, that nothing that came before was ever this atrocious or bad or that this show had X years (whatever seasons you arbitrarily decided today were "the peak" which seems to constantly change) of perfection before it got corrupted by the evil Eric Wallace who came in to suddenly ruin everything.

It's trying to be more light hearted and campy ("It's Wednesday!") - and it's okay to not like that. But the world isn't ending. The show hasn't done a complete 180 suddenly.

You guys are just so far removed from all those awful, awful seasons that you look back and think "wow it was never THIS flawed" - I promise you, it really, really was. You guys are hyperfocusing on the bad every episode and ignoring all the good (or pretending there literally isn't any, which is bullshit and we all know it, and if you're going to legitimately sit and say that there is not 1 good quality from start to finish in an episode then I don't believe you're actually arguing in good faith).

INB4: 'sir this is a wendys', 'found eric wallace's reddit account,' 'tl;dr' etc. Spoiler alert: you're not funny or original.

Iris is just a stuck up bih