r/modnews • u/spez • May 13 '17
Reddit is ProCSS
Hi Mods,
I wanted to follow up on the CSS and redesign post from a few weeks back and provide some more information as well as clarify some questions that have emerged.
Based on your feedback, we will allow you to continue to use CSS on top of the new structured styles. This will be the last part of the customization tool we build as we want to make sure the structured options we are offering are rock solid. Also, please keep in mind that if you do choose to use the advanced option, we will no longer be treading as carefully as we have done in the past about breaking styles applied through CSS1.
To give you a sense of our approach, we’re starting with a handful of highly-customized communities (e.g. r/overwatch and r/gameofthrones) and seeing how close we can get to their existing appearance using the new system. Logos, images, colors, spoilers, menus, flairs (all kinds), and lots more will be supported. I know you’d like to see a list of everything, but we think the best approach will be to show instead of tell, which we’re racing to as quickly as possible.
The widget system I mentioned in the last post isn’t directly related. Many communities have added complex functionality over the years (calendars, scoreboards, etc). A widget system will elevate these features to first-class status on Reddit, with the aim of making them both more powerful and reuseable. Yes, we’re evaluating how we would accept user-created widgets. We intend for widgets to be able to be updated via the API, so you’ll still be able to create dynamically updating content in your subreddit sidebar.
This change, and the redesign in general, is going to happen slowly. We will will not be abruptly cutting everyone over to the new site at once. We know it won’t be perfect at first (unlike the current site), and plan to include plenty of time to solicit feedback and make iterations. Sharing our plans for subreddit customization this far advance with you is part of this process.
We’ll start with a small alpha group and create a subreddit to solicit feedback. As we continue to add features, we’ll expand the testing group to an opt-in beta. If you’d like to participate in the alpha please add a reply to this comment. Please note, signing up does not guarantee a spot in the alpha. We want to be able to be responsive to the alpha testers, and keeping the initial group small has proved to be effective in the past.
I’d like thank everyone who has provided feedback on this topic. There have been some very constructive threads. I’d also like to take a moment to appreciate how civil the feedback has been. This is a topic many of you feel passionate about. Thank you for keeping things constructive.
Cool?
Cool.
1 No snark allowed.
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u/Isentrope May 13 '17
Spez do you like onions.
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u/spez May 13 '17
I like onions. I don't love onions. I didn't like them as a kid, but they say your tastes change every seven years, and I adopted onions in my 20s.
The real enemy here are olives.
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u/TotesMessenger May 13 '17 edited May 17 '17
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/circlejerk] Roses are red, violets are blue, Spez likes onions and chaos ensues.
[/r/garliclovers] CEO OF REDDIT LOVES ONIONS. NO COMMENT ON GARLIC. UNACCEPTABLE!
[/r/idiottrolling] I JUST REMEMBERED THAT I MADE THIS SUB HOLY SHIT.
[/r/metaredditpics] Spez grants us an opportunity to spread word of a great subreddit
[/r/olivelovers] BREAKING! - Spez: "The real enemy here are olives."
[/r/onionhate] CEO of Reddit succumbs to the Dark Side, says he likes onions SHAMEFUL!
[/r/onionlovers] CEO of Reddit endorses /r/onionlovers to be best subreddit of all time
[/r/shittheadminssay] I like onions. I don't love onions. I didn't like them as a kid, but they say your tastes change every seven years, and I adopted onions in my 20s. The real enemy here are olives.
[/r/stonethecrow] Spez is part of the Onion Alliance and a traitor, now take him away!
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / ^Contact)
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u/I_Am_Batgirl May 13 '17
Spez, we at r/onionlovers welcome you. However, as a representative of r/olivelovers I'd like to say we'd love a chance to sit down to a delicious meal with you where we will do our best to help you see the light.
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u/ELFAHBEHT_SOOP May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
Well, this is disgusting.
Also: /r/OliveLovers
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u/_Nohbdy_ May 13 '17
I don't like onions. They're coarse and rough and irritating. And they get everywhere.
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u/abrownn May 13 '17
You shut your whore mouth, olives are god tier. Eggplant on the other hand... that's where your hate should be directed. Why are they purple? They're not eggs! What are they plotting???
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u/LukeBabbitt May 13 '17
Forget CSS, this is the stand the admins need to be making. Thank you for your profile in courage.
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u/noahwhygodwhy May 13 '17
Like, normal olives, or black olives? Pitted is mandatory ofc.
Also, don't you know spez? Black Olives matter.
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u/thirdegree May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
The real enemy here are olives.
On this we can all agree.
Also onions are a force for good in the world.
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u/JoyousCacophony May 13 '17
Answer this question, /u/spez! It will clearly tell us which side of this community you truly fall on.
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u/cool_creeper500 May 13 '17
Thanks for listening and caring spez, quick question, what led to the dumb idea of removing CSS?
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u/spez May 13 '17
It was u/powerlanguage. I've been telling him for weeks he's crazy, but r/place really went to his head.
But, actually... Everything I said in the last post is still true. CSS shouldn't be the only way to customize a community. We are still going to build a structured system, which will be more accessible, cross-platform, and less brittle. If we do a job with this and the widget system, I expect CSS to be less required, but we can leave CSS for more advanced use-cases.
Happy Cakeday!
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u/Ambiwlans May 13 '17
_____________ _/_|[][][][][] | - - ( City Bus | - - =--OO-------OO--= (┛◉Д◉)┛彡 u/powerlanguage→ More replies (7)726
May 13 '17
CSS shouldn't be the only way to customize a community. We are still going to build a structured system, which will be more accessible, cross-platform, and less brittle. If we do a job with this and the widget system, I expect CSS to be less required, but we can leave CSS for more advanced use-cases.
I'm so happy right now. Thank you for actually listening. That means more than you'd ever think for us. I do NOT want to lose the identity of the many subs I mod for. Some of these subs would never be the same without the sarcastic or funny css I installed.
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u/cool_creeper500 May 13 '17
Everyone attack powerlanguage! Jk
Yeah, you have a point, but I think having an option will be better, good luck with the new way :)
Also, woah! The owner of reddit replied to my comment, and told me happy cakeday :3
Thanks, and have a great day!
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u/sarahbotts May 13 '17
We have a pretty cool OC-bot for /r/dataisbeautiful that would break if CSS were removed. Pretty glad we'll still be able to use it.
Also - on /r/leagueoflegends we have an integration with Riot's API to have information on upcoming matches. Would be nice to still be able to do that.
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u/disgustipated May 13 '17
CSS shouldn't be the only way to customize a community.
Thank you for understanding that reddit's a community first.
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u/dietotaku May 13 '17
having worked with a similar system on some old (OLD) school websites, it's really the best of both worlds. a widget-based, WYSIWYG system gives the accessibility to get a total novice started, and an overlaying stylesheet that can accomplish literally anything provides opportunity for the user's knowledge and skill base to continue to grow. i feel much more at ease having the option to experiment with the new system to see how it might improve my styles, but still being able to rely on CSS to fine-tune it and make it what i really want.
we will no longer be treading as carefully as we have done in the past about breaking styles applied through CSS
i'm not even remotely worried, probably half of what i've learned about CSS has been through un-breaking a stylesheet that got unexpectedly borked through some sitewide change (most recently, having to incorporate the new modmail icon). i'm confident that whatever breaks, CSS can fix it.
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u/ITSigno May 13 '17
What you're describing sounds like an excellent solution.
And if some of the new style options or widgets can replace what we do with CSS, even better. Happy to move those things into a structured system where we can. Also happy to keep CSS for all those unique community enhancements and esoteric functionality.
Thank you for listening to the feedback.
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u/legacymedia92 May 13 '17
CSS shouldn't be the only way to customize a community.
Agreed, but the idea of removing it as an option was a bad idea.
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u/__Clever_Username__ May 13 '17
I was wondering why you didn't go with this 2-tier decision in the first place, and sidestep all of the inevitable backlash and controversy.
Oh well, thank you for seeing sense in the end.
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u/TheEnemyOfMyAnenome May 13 '17
Yeah, thanks spez. This kind of stuff might not get the articulation that it deserves, but for many people when you listen to the community like this it silently restores a lot of hope in the administration's commitment to reddit's core values. I was starting to get seriously worried around the announcement the new profile thing but you've assuaged a lot of that.
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u/BiologyIsHot May 13 '17
Honestly more subs use CSS for annoying shit than useful things. And for every good CSS implementation, there's two garbage ones that break parts of their own page. I guess that's what RES is for though.
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u/kmeisthax May 13 '17
Spez already replied, but I'll give my perspective...
The problem with CSS - and this is not a Reddit specific problem - is that it's not really easy to mix two separate stylesheets into a coherent result. That is, it's not really intended to be used the way Reddit is using it. If Reddit ships a styling update, it'll apply everywhere that the subreddit CSS does not explicitly override exactly those rules that were just added into the sitewide styles. As a result, Reddit can't really ship sweeping redesigns of their site without completely breaking the design intent of existing code. And they can't just keep subreddits on old versions of the base styling without breaking new features they intend to ship. The consequences of this is that Reddit's web design has been dated for a while now - it's not responsive, for one, which is why there's a separate Reddit mobile site.
Removing CSS and replacing it with a customization system makes it so they can ship new base styling that's already tested against the range of customization options they officially support. Their new approach is to basically keep CSS as an unsupported option. i.e. Reddit's not going to explicitly erase your CSS anymore, but it will break eventually simply because of the consequences of Reddit evolving their design.
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u/Halaku May 13 '17
CSS doesn't play well with mobile.
The goal is to have something CSS-esque that plays well no matter how you access Reddit.
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May 13 '17
Its funny because the web design and development subreddits agreed with the css removal while the ignorant masses went wild against it.
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u/frahm9 May 13 '17
Thank you for listening guys. If I pick CSS, will I be able to customize mobile?
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u/spez May 13 '17
It won't be one or the other, but CSS won't affect mobile.
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May 13 '17
This is a good thing IMO. When browsing on mobile I prefer all subs to look the same and for them to have the minimal amount of un-needed clutter. I like seeing text flairs, beyond that anything else is annoying.
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u/PM-ME-XBOX-MONEY May 13 '17
Will you be able to turn off mobile customization like you can with CSS on desktop? I don't know how many people will do it (I love subreddit customization) but it should still be a feature.
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u/powerlanguage May 13 '17
Please reply to this comment with your subreddit name if you're interested in it being included in the alpha.
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u/spez May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
Actually, nvm. Leave us out.
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May 13 '17
damn they really did take away all your powers after that T_D thing huh? even have to request alpha access with the plebs.
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u/_BindersFullOfWomen_ May 13 '17
I'm over ruling. Put us in the alpha.
Hero needs to learn how to make new themes and I'm sure he'll need extra time.
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u/SometimesY May 13 '17
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u/Nebraska_Actually May 13 '17
I fear what would happen if /r/CFB was accidentally messed up, though.
It's my go-to subreddit whenever I need more information for mine.
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u/IAmTheFatman666 May 13 '17
/r/baddragon (NSFW)
Our current CSS is kinda bad so having the ability to use new tools would really help us.
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u/MatthewBetts May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
Just a quick question, do the subs we sign up need to already have an established user base? I'm only asking because a number of mods on the Reddit Mods discord are interested in possibly trying this out but do not want to sign up their subs up and I was thinking that it was a good way of testing it out and then a possible integration on those subs at a later date.
Edit: I'd like to add /r/azxsdcvfgbnhjm as the sub of choice
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u/HeyItsShuga May 13 '17
Yes, I know it's a test subreddit, but I would like to help test and develop this feature, which would help me migrate scripts like BetterPonymotes to this new system.
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u/dronpes May 13 '17
Our flair has been an important part of our community, and our upvote animations have a 'randomization' element where a certain attribute leads to rarer ("shiny") animations about 1% of the time. We'd love to keep this capability (or even improve it) in the new system if possible! :)
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u/Fustrate May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
/r/baseball for the entire baseball community
edited after seeing that the alpha would be a separate website
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u/ZadocPaet May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
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u/Kirito9704 May 13 '17
Just wanted to ask, what theme is r/ProCSS using? I love the look and feel and would like to see how I could implement it over in the other subs I mod...
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u/expiredcheese May 13 '17
I think a good cross section of sports sub should be considered, we do some crazy CSS in these subs.
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u/tragopanic May 13 '17
r/WishlistBETA, the private mod-testing subreddit for Wishlist, would like to be included in the alpha phase. Wishlist relies heavily on CSS for functionality and events. I know we're a small community but we'd greatly appreciate being included. Thanks!
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u/BoomLiam May 13 '17
/r/Twitch but we would like to try it on our test sub /r/HeepHelps if possible ty oxox luv ya
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u/GryphonEDM May 13 '17
Thank you very much /u/spez /u/powerlanguage and all the other Reddit admins for listening the voices of the users and moderators it's very much appreciated.
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u/Noerdy May 13 '17 edited Dec 12 '24
correct rainstorm enter lip bedroom fall steep cooperative chief intelligent
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/carpy22 May 13 '17
So /r/CFB can keep it's CSS and flair system as-is?
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u/spez May 13 '17
We're building a new flair system that's way more powerful than what you have to do now.
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u/Zerosa May 13 '17
Able to handle ~2600 unique flair and ~6 million dual flair combos?
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u/bakonydraco May 13 '17
This is awesome! I'm really excited to see you working directly with subs to integrate the features they have in an easier way. What's the best way for us to track/request features? Particularly with respect to flair, but more generally too.
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u/Drunken_Economist May 13 '17
spez wat about srs
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u/TotesMessenger May 13 '17
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May 14 '17
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May 13 '17
I think this is great, and I think "you can have css in exchange for us breaking it more often" is the fairest compromise I could really ask for.
Thanks mates
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u/geltoid May 13 '17
Thank you so much for really listening to the community and really showing that you care to make Reddit a better place.
I would have never even gone near CSS if it wasn't for Reddit's ability for users to customize their experience. I spent a long time learning about it - from experimentation, to asking the wonderful Reddit community, to scouring the net - in order to help create a place truly unique to my little corner of the internet.
What became of that is /r/starwarsspeculation. Sure, it's not perfect, and I'm sure there's a ton of things an expert coder could nitpick about, but it's an accomplishment that I'm glad I was able to acheive.
You admins made the best possible choice by offering a way for the community of Reddit to integrate with the changes that you want to make here. By working together, you will only make this great website only greater.
Thanks again!
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u/MrMallow May 13 '17
The only reason I learned CSS back in college was for Reddit, it's been an amazing experience.
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u/TotesMessenger May 13 '17 edited May 21 '17
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/316cats] Will someone set up css for my cats I don't know what I'm doing
[/r/de] Reddit is ProCSS, wir dürfen CSS behalten! • r/modnews
[/r/enoughtrumpspam] Spez admits to having good taste in food unlike Donald "Shake n' bake steak" Trump.
[/r/ffxiv] [CSS Update] For those concerned about the sub design going away...
[/r/fireemblemheroes] For those of you that were worried about losing user-flairs and filters, no need to fear
[/r/gunnerkrigg] Reddit is ProCSS! We will not losing our stylesheet or emotes!
[/r/hfjrhfcjnfhcjfhcnfhcb] I feel BaD For ThE tOtES MeSsAnger BoT. and also wanted to be included, this sub has no rules, this is not mod abuse, this title is going...
[/r/jontron] Reddit is ProCSS! CSS will no longer be removed!
[/r/kappa] Looks like custom CSS isn't going anywhere after all
[/r/manga] Update to the "Reddit Admins Want To Remove CSS": Reddit is ProCSS.
[/r/maninthehighcastle] [META] Reddit is ProCSS - Our Hard Work Remains!
[/r/modelseattlepi] [Meta-Meta] Reddit Admins Backtrack on CSS Deletion
[/r/modeluspress] [Meta-Meta] Reddit Admins Backtrack on CSS Deletion
[/r/mylittleandysonic1] [PSA] Good news, everyone! CSS is here to stay!
[/r/ooer] V̧̻̠̭̮̼͚̖͇̱̖̲̰̠͚̱̬͊ͨ͑ͬ̃͡Į̶̴̺̮͈͓͔̰̻̰͎̯̥̜̜̪̱͚̳̓̎͂͂̿ͨͣ̎͌ͫ̂ͨͬ̚C̛̥̥͕͙̼̄̇̒̌ͥ̐̀ͦ͆̃ͣ̀́̚͠T͖̟̯̫̲̝̰̫̩̖̤̤̤̃ͫ̋̎̔ͬͫ̑̐͂ͮͫ͗̾ͨ̌̄͜͞͡ͅO̸̶̤̯̘͉̫͚̝̙̾͗̓̏̅̒͒͜͢͝...
[/r/quityourbullshit] Reddit admins have changed their minds about removing CSS!
[/r/reddithax] Reddithax is SAVED! Reddit is keeping CSS customization.
[/r/squaredcircle] [META] Reddit will continue to support CSS
[/r/starvstheforcesofevil] [META] Reddit will continue to support CSS!
[/r/stevenuniverse] [META] Reddit will continue to support CSS!
[/r/the_donald] Our domreddit will stay looking as amazing and presidential as ever thanks to shithead Spez
[/r/uslpro] [META] Reddit is ProCSS - We get to retain our hard work!
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / ^Contact)
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u/TotesMessenger May 13 '17
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u/xlicer May 13 '17
redditcensorship, shittheadminssay, csshaters
I thought it was a good thing to keep the ccs, why are now people complaining about now?
Also TIL theres a Japanese sub for moderators
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u/supremecrafters May 13 '17
right on the sidebar for StAS. Dunno what the other two subs' problems are, though.
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u/justsaying0999 May 13 '17
[/r/bwaredapenguin] I just want to be included
Well there you go
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u/Hullian111 May 13 '17
Man, that's the biggest u/TotesMessenger post I've ever seen. That's how you celebrate success, people.
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u/reseph May 13 '17
Thanks spez. Allowing CSS customization on top of widgets and considering user-created widgets is exactly what I felt would be the right direction. Cool cool cool.
I have no beef with a desktop redesign, so I forward to the future.
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May 13 '17
I think the best part about having CSS in this new platform is it will show you what the users/mods think needs a focus on. Just how all the crazy css hacks now are inspiring redesign, the continued crazy css hacks will help show things that need to be made
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u/calexil May 13 '17
on behalf of everyone at /r/procss and our massive, list of supporters, I would just like to say.. Thank you for listening.
-cal
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u/aalp234 May 13 '17
Thanks for listening to the community Spez, this is a very positive response for all of us mods.
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u/CursedBlackCat May 13 '17
Kudos to the admins for going so far as to putting the pro CSS logo on this subreddit.
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u/ZadocPaet May 13 '17 edited May 13 '17
One more question about subs that want to use CSS and widgets. Several of my subs want to sign up for the alpha; will be be able to use widgets AND CSS at the same time?
Thanks!
Edit: One more question. Will users be able to disable widget styles in their preferences page like they can now for CSS? At /r/procss, that was the number one reason we saw for people not liking CSS.
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May 13 '17
This is a great question. Being able to disable customization is very important - I hate /r/gameofthrones CSS so I keep it off for example.
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u/fireork12 May 13 '17
So is it essentially a keep CSS if you want, but the second option is there if you want?
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u/Rimrul May 13 '17
It seems to be "we recommend you do what you can with widgets, but CSS is still an option."
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u/ZadocPaet May 13 '17
Hi /u/spez,
Thank you for this post. As person pretty vested in reddit, I am happy and relieved. This really should've been the first post, but hey, a week makes everyone wiser.
I wanted to ask if there will be a possibility for users to dev some of the widgets.
Thanks!
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u/ggAlex May 13 '17
We are looking into ways of making user developed widgets possible.
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u/aphoenix May 13 '17
Thank you for listening to the moderators. I've been kind of doom and gloom on the topic for the last week or so, so I'm very happy to be wrong about how this is going down.
I'm wondering if we could get something like a Roadmap? It would be great if we could see what features are in the works and that we could expect in the future.
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u/the_black_panther_ May 13 '17
This'll probably be lost in all the other comments but thank you /u/spez, for listening to us. Seriously. It usually feels like the admins just give us empty words and pandering but you guys actually took our thoughts into account and came up with a great solution for both sides. Great job guys
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u/Jelman21 May 13 '17
Thanks so much for keeping CSS. It's what makes reddit and subreddits unique
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May 13 '17
I really would like to thank you for reconsidering. It's reassuring to see that the community stood strongly for this feature and to see the admins listen.
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u/lovemeorrageme May 13 '17
Thank you so much. I've had the pleasure of working with some very talented CSS mods on multiple different subreddits who have created some really awesome themes, flairs, etc. I'm curious to see what you guys roll out, but I'm also very glad that it doesn't have to be at the expense of CSS.
Thanks for actually listening to the community.
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May 13 '17
As long as I can turn off css that reduces text size or goes too far with padding and margins or hides the downvote button im good
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u/JustAnotherINFTP May 13 '17
To give you a sense of our approach, we’re starting with a handful of highly-customized communities (e.g. r/overwatch and r/gameofthrones)
Tfw not /r/ooer
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u/tuturuatu May 13 '17
I'm ambivalent to the CSS changes (mostly because it's stupidly hard to work with), but I don't really understand what the impetus for the proposed changes were for. Was that it? Or did reddit want more control over what subreddits could do, like hiding the downvote button?
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u/supremecrafters May 13 '17
It's mostly about control, yeah, but that's not the only reason. There is some well-justified fear that removal of CSS would be the next step in the downfall of Reddit. Some of the recent decisions the Reddit team have been making are revealing a trend towards a social-media format and away from the link-aggregation format. See: the new userpage format, the plan to make Reddit more standardized by removing CSS, the increased ad space, the entire design and functionality of the reddit app.
I mean, nothing against social media, but the type of demographic that uses social media doesn't 100% overlap with reddit's current userbase. Some are worried that the new population Reddit is trying to attract with its changes won't be sustainable as the old population leaves for somewhere else. This is pretty much what happened to Digg. They made a major design change, tried to put more of their content in your face, and sold more advertising pretty much right before the site died a slow and painful death.
The admin team's willingness to listen in the case of CSS leads me to believe that the trend can be stopped, though.
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u/Annakha May 13 '17
I just found out yesterday that Tumblr has Two-Factor Authentication.
Tumblr.
Is that necessary aspect of a modern forum of this caliber feature even on the radar yet?
Tumblr. seriously.
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u/AstroturfingBot May 13 '17
Listen spez, I'm happy for you, and ima let you finish. But when are the search engine bugs getting fixed?
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u/wingnut5k May 13 '17
[r/ooer hoisting the victory flag after their victory for freedom (2017)] (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/WW2_Iwo_Jima_flag_raising.jpg)
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u/Sysiphuslove May 13 '17
Will we still have the option of turning subreddit customization off, and continuing to use the site without styles?
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u/Warlizard May 13 '17
Whatever. We all know the truth.
It was Russia who came up with the idea.
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May 13 '17
I like this. I see both sides of the debate and often find myself in favor of CSS, but fully supported customization tools will be really good for the website.
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u/sephrinx May 13 '17
Thank god. Having every page be a boring, static form/structure would be mind blowingly boring. I'm glad that you guys have rethought the idea and will continue to allow kick ass CSS.
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u/V2Blast May 13 '17
Cool beans. Glad you guys were willing to make a compromise. It's good to have common functionalities be native, but it's also nice to be able to customize stuff beyond what's commonly used (sometimes even developing new features that might not have been thought of otherwise). Thanks :)
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u/freshwordsalad May 13 '17
Can we have a way to disable subreddit CSS without being logged in? Maybe a query flag or something?
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u/notnotbuddy May 13 '17
We at /r/bigbrother would love to be involved. we have an extensive flair/trophy/badge system that we would love to keep going forwards
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u/MrPippen May 13 '17
Thank you for listening to the community. Knowing you decided to be responsive, open and willing to change is great for the community's trust and feelings towards the guys behind this amazing site. So good on you.
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u/Redbiertje May 13 '17
Spez, honestly, if I could kiss you right now I would. Thanks for listening to the feedback of the moderators, and going with this perfect combination of CSS and the new styles system.
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u/eightNote May 13 '17
choose to use the advanced option, we will no longer be treading as carefully as we have done in the past about breaking styles applied through CSS1.
I'm 100÷ okay with this. it's just more stuff to play with can you let us know when it will happen though?
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u/YaWishYouHadThatName May 13 '17
I dont know why you would use css anyway. I have that Moderators have the ability to "disable" Downvotes, Im using a sitewide theme.
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May 13 '17
This is going in the correct direction.
Empowering the userbase further with something new and improved.
At the end of the day, the old post was badly received because everyone knew damn well you were taking something away from us, and that the new thing would be less powerful and less capable.
Empowerment is significantly better than control.
I would however suggest addressing the balance - Right now, all power on reddit lies with moderators. In fact, all power has always lied with moderators. Reddit is founded upon the notion of votes empowering the userbase, yet when is the last time improvements were made to further empower regular users? Sure, algo changes. But tools and the way reddit functions ideologically for them? Giving them greater abilities to improve reddit too?
Something to think about.
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u/imnotlegolas May 13 '17
Highly unpopular opinion, but I was looking forward to the removal of CSS and a more uniform Reddit, with still changeable banners and logo's. There's tons of subreddits where I switch off CSS because it's so invasive, and plenty are used that make user experience more difficult because the way it's implemented.
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u/arduousFrivolity May 13 '17
I can see why that's an unpopular opinion! You said yourself that you switch off CSS when you don't like it... So you're aware that it is an option to switch it all off and have yourself a uniform experience, you just don't want anyone to be able to enjoy it more than you don't.
What kind of ass backwards thinking is that? "If I don't want it, nobody can!"
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u/glitchn May 13 '17
I kind of agree, but I do like the option of having CSS. I'm hoping that at least having both option available, most subreddits won't go the hacky route, which means we can still disable the css and still get the functionality.
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u/k_princess May 13 '17
Curious as to why /u/spez makes his announcements on Friday afternoons...All it does is gives us users time over the weekend to fully pick apart words and possible intents.
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May 13 '17
Honestly, css is the myspace layout of reddit. I know people get really attached to it, but it is without fail clunky and ugly.
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u/Mackin-N-Cheese May 13 '17
So, "on top of" as in concurrently with, or as in pick one or the other?
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May 13 '17
I'm merely a smut-peddler, but I do like a bit of CSS shenanigans too. Having better customisation tools available, and CSS for those who want it, seems like a win-win. Nice one!
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u/supremecrafters May 13 '17
This is fantastic news! Thank you for listening. I will be watching the widget system closely; I'm very excited to see how it turns out. I think the two-sided system will be good for everyone involved.
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u/[deleted] May 13 '17
If we opt-in to the alpha, can we pull out if the alpha fucks things up too much?