r/GlobalOffensive • u/superandywaffle • Jul 16 '17
Discussion | Esports Natus Vincere vs G2 Esports / PGL Major Kraków 2017 - Round 1 / Post-Match Discussion
Natus Vincere 0-1 G2 Esports
Overpass: 14-16
NAVI | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
G2 | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
PGL Major Kraków 2017 / Schedule & Discussion
For VoDs of this game check out /r/CSeventVODs
Subreddit Discord for /r/globaloffensive
Who was the MVP for this series? (POLL)
| MAP | ||
|---|---|---|
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
| CT/T | T/CT |
MAP 1: Overpass
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| NAVI | 12 | 2 | 14 |
| T | CT | ||
| G2 | 3 | 13 | 16 |
| NAVI | K | A | D |
|---|---|---|---|
| s1mple | 30 | 1 | 20 |
| Edward | 25 | 3 | 19 |
| flamie | 19 | 4 | 18 |
| GuardiaN | 15 | 6 | 16 |
| seized | 6 | 3 | 19 |
| G2 | |||
| NBK- | 24 | 5 | 21 |
| shox | 20 | 4 | 18 |
| kennyS | 20 | 2 | 18 |
| apEX | 16 | 6 | 20 |
| bodyy | 12 | 3 | 18 |
Map 1 Detailed Stats
438
u/Dartsfan Jul 16 '17
Well, that was a 50/50 game
164
u/ThatsSoTypical Jul 16 '17
Always trust the coin
22
u/Chemicalzz1 Jul 16 '17
Source of the meme?
91
u/Big_Dirty_Piss_Boner Jul 16 '17
G2 tossed a coin at the map veto, because they couldn't decide which map to play.
27
u/ThatsSoTypical Jul 16 '17
here's the reddit thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/6nnwbj/g2_coinflip_to_choose_the_map/
and here's a direct link to the clip
14
u/snip3y Jul 16 '17
G2 flipped a coin because they couldn't decide which map to play, either Nuke or Overpass. There's a video of it on front page.
→ More replies (3)3
7
→ More replies (7)5
557
Jul 16 '17
63
u/gas4u Jul 16 '17
He lurked up mid as his team won the round and killed KennyS and didnt let him save the AWP! Very important frag!
→ More replies (1)27
u/imguralbumbot Jul 16 '17
Hi, I'm a bot for linking direct images of albums with only 1 image
https://i.imgur.com/AFWHX5J.jpg
Source | Why? | Creator | state_of_imgur | ignoreme | deletthis
70
130
u/dM4rcushimo Vitality Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
First half reminded me of how EnVyUs used to play t-side in 2016
Don’t throw nades ✓
Never adapt ✓
Run in dry ✓
Peek one by one ✓
Win a random eco ✓
Win a bullshit clutch ✓
Never string together rounds ✓
45
u/Ajp_iii Jul 16 '17
atleast they ran in to die. navi couldnt even figure out how to run in unless the clock had 20 seconds
7
8
u/samehsameh Jul 16 '17
You forgot never check angles
cough apex on long cough
4
u/8512332158 Jul 17 '17
The worst part is he walked up long staring at the corner on the left then when he finally got close enough to check it he turned the other way and then got killed from the spot he didnt check
4
u/u-r-silly Jul 16 '17
These guys can't into Overpass. They still veto it most of the times when they can. They just never learnt it.
183
Jul 16 '17
10
20
u/Slumph Jul 16 '17
Why
30
u/EliteDemonTaco Jul 16 '17
Although I didn't choose them, Navi going 3-0 was a genuine possibility.
They have went 3-0, 3-0, and 3-1 at their last three Swiss events. They seem to thrive during them.
→ More replies (3)8
10
u/Shorgar G2 Jul 16 '17
Well your chances were fucked up from the start boy, don't know what you expected.
88
u/Canzler G2 Jul 16 '17
19
4
45
u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jul 16 '17
Na'Vi played each T round 4v5, and by that I don't mean seized was irrelevant (which he was), I mean that Na'Vi somehow always lost the opening pick to a solo player pushing. As for seized, I'm 90% sure s1mple will actually kill him IRL.
5
u/gas4u Jul 16 '17
more like 3v5 tbh. Seized being useless all game (and previous 2 games i watched for them), and they kept getting picked off w the bad trading.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Ajp_iii Jul 16 '17
they played slow just to play slow. the only rounds they won was when they force bought and full executed. otherwise they were just slowly killed in 1v1s and it just happened to be s1mple left in 2v4 and 2v5s
78
u/WHumbers Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17
Please just take Seized off IGL, he sucks plain and simple..
157
→ More replies (1)8
37
34
u/GivePLZ-DoritosChip MIBR Jul 16 '17
Damn that G2 double awp.
I thought they lost the match.
7
u/Mongooo G2 Jul 16 '17
Yeah, shox awp is always scary, but they made it. And daaaamn that shot on Guardian, must have felt real good.
8
u/Kejsare102 Jul 16 '17
shox awp is always scary
Except when he gets too confident and decides to awp over Kenny.
→ More replies (3)
267
Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
I have no more excuses for seized - I am 100% sure he cost NaVi this game. Anytime a round would be won on T side it would be because of S1mple or Edward - some ridiculous play and so many times NaVi would of had an advantage if Seized hit some basic shots, got at least a few frags when entering sites. - I honestly think Seized has to go for NaVi to ever be tier 1.
109
u/z0rgi-A- valeria Jul 16 '17
Cut seized get Zeus. Navi back to tier 1
126
Jul 16 '17
I really believe this but Zeus said he was kicked out behind his back. I don't know if he will come back.
61
39
u/JayCDee CS2 HYPE Jul 16 '17
Yeah, and Zeus looks like a proud man and would not go back to navi if they asked him. He's got something going with Gambit and I don't see him throwing that away for a team that thought they would be the best if they got rid of him.
18
u/Raz0rLight G2 Jul 16 '17
Zeus has worked really hard to make gambit a relevant team, even if they are a little questionable right now.
I would hesitate to go back as well given everything.
→ More replies (1)10
→ More replies (18)12
18
u/Ajp_iii Jul 16 '17
they literally sat around for a minute and 30 seconds and did nothing but give up opening picks. then would try to rush into a stacked bombsite at 15 seconds left. seized put no pressure on b when everyone else was going a. numerous times g2 had 4 a
34
u/WHumbers Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17
Seriously. His individual performance fell off a cliff since being IGL, and he fucking sucks at IGL too.
He makes pronax look like a good fragger..
→ More replies (1)3
u/pitatoide phoenix Jul 16 '17
Yep, he could have gone down hill individually but he could still give the right calls but cmon....
9
u/gEO-dA-K1nG tactics Jul 16 '17
Lol plus the thing where a bunch of pros were asked who the best caller they had was. Most picked their current IGL, but the Na'Vi guys either picked Zeus or blad3 lmfao
18
u/Retrotrek Jul 16 '17
What's crazy is that before he was forced to take up IGL with Zeus's exit he was a very solid support player. I honestly think a Angel seized simple Guardian Edward team could be very good.
36
→ More replies (4)7
u/scareCroW1337 G2 Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
Yeah he's getting shit on but I remember him single handedly winning games not so long ago
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)4
u/Grindstone8 1 Million Celebration Jul 16 '17
That round 24 and round 26 gave me a headache. Those were some really poor calls by Na'Vi.
83
u/bkdr22 Team Spirit Jul 16 '17
seized played awful this whole game
44
u/Ajp_iii Jul 16 '17
it wasnt even his kills. his calls were just awful. t side they werent winning any rounds going slow but kept going slow for no reason at all. numerous rounds g2 knew 100% what navi were doing
18
u/bkdr22 Team Spirit Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
even at 14-14, he would not push and try to kill NBK who was low hp at bathrooms and then he flanked and killed his teammate from short. Letting Zeus go was the biggest mistake Na'Vi probably ever done. Na'Vi was known to be such a great tactical team but now the teams just know what they do all the time because of these weak strats seized calls
19
u/TehAlpacalypse Jul 16 '17
Zeus doing big things at Gambit now too. The regret has to be real
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)8
u/Gerf93 Envyus Jul 16 '17
Letting Zeus go was a big mistake, but not getting s1mple would've been a mistake too when they had the chance. In hindsight it's easy to say that they should've kicked someone else, but at that time they didn't know that Starix couldn't IGL them.
→ More replies (1)6
u/gorbatsh0ve Jul 16 '17
NaVi don't have a T side, they don't have an tactical depth. They don't create any action or diversions that could draw a rotation/movement from CT players. Compare it to Gambit's or BIG's games and see how both teams had players all over the place, they are using utility either to divert from one of their player's taking up a position, to bait out utility, to gain information etc. NaVi barely does any of this. They'll use the occasional flash to peek around corners, but essentially their mid-round calling is "let's go to A/B". The amount of contact- plays NaVi does can't be intentional at this point any more. They lack the strategic depth. You can't count on your opponents stupidity all the time that they fuck up their veto this hard.
→ More replies (1)6
u/TheHuntingHunty Jul 16 '17
Seized and Guardian showing poor performances this game. It was truly the s1mple and Edward show on CT side, and when they stopped carrying it all fell apart on T side.
28
88
u/C-4 Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
I've said it once and I'll say it again; Na'Vi needs to drop the egos and embrace the fact s1mple is their best player. In round 23 everyone had a rifle except s1mple, who had a deagle. Now his deagle is insane, but the best player should have an AK. Also, they NEED TO FUCKING LET HIM LOOSE! I understand most teams like to play disciplined and with strategy, and I'm not saying stop that, but s1mple is one of the best players in the game when he gets to play his own game. Yes, it's high risk high reward, but he carried a fucking NA team to a major final when he was allowed to play his game. That one round early on in the game when Na'Vi was on CT side, he was in bathrooms and walked through the molly and flanked G2 and got a fucking 4k, that's what he does! FREE S1MPLE!
19
u/Retrotrek Jul 16 '17
I think the problem is that the structure that simple shines most in, a loose one, is the opposite of how Zeus ran Navi and Blade runs Flipside. IMO Angel is the most loose IGL in the CIS region and Navi should be trying to get him.
5
u/VysuaLs NiP Jul 17 '17
Which honestly is why s1mple can shine in an NA team so well, they love to play a loose style. Not that that simple would want to, but imagine simple in C9 or Optic? I think itd be sick
→ More replies (3)20
u/Ajp_iii Jul 16 '17
they played way too passive in gun rounds. let simple an flamie make a play. they were getting picked apart and navi knew where simple was and never challanged simple. the only rounds they won is when they full rushed so simple could actually get a kill. FREE SIMPLE
6
Jul 16 '17
You said it all, IMO. It feels such a waste having him on Na'Vi for so long and they can't figure out a style that will benefit both them and S1mple.
3
4
2
u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid Jul 16 '17
It seemed like they let him free during the CT side, but then once they got to T they put him back on the leash.
When he gets to go aggro he's insane and that's where he peaks.
I thought they finally learned until I saw the T side. FeelsBadMan
→ More replies (6)2
u/sonefiler Jul 16 '17
The "dont give the ak to the best rifler" strat is actually interesting, and I have a theory for why they do it.
A rifler, because they're not AWPing or IGLing, can practice not only the AK/M4 but also the other guns like the UMP, Deagle, etc. more extensively and can have way more impact with these guns than their teammates.
An IGL, on the other hand, doesn't have time to master the other guns. Same with the AWPer.
I think that's why s1mple had the deagle.
49
u/ljubo1337 Jul 16 '17
Kick seized
???
Profit
→ More replies (1)22
Jul 16 '17
no that's wrong.
Kick seized
Add a good IGL that his calls aren't shit and he can frag well
???
PROFIT!
→ More replies (2)34
u/Wxcsdb Jul 16 '17
Add a good IGL that his calls aren't shit and he can frag well
The goal of basically every team (besides those that already have one)
→ More replies (5)
25
u/throwaway9901234 G2 Jul 16 '17
Name a more iconic duo. G2 and t sides. I'll wait ;)
66
u/OnlyMayhem Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17
Seized and being a shit igl
16
6
u/throwaway9901234 G2 Jul 16 '17
In his defense, he was a great player under zeus's lead but looks like being igl took too much of his attention :(
8
u/OnlyMayhem Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17
6 kills in 30 rounds is so poor even for an igl
→ More replies (4)6
35
12
22
u/hulksreddit 10 years coin Jul 16 '17
holy shit, very fun game to watch
8
u/calebci G2 Jul 16 '17
My jeans were blue before the game
11
2
10
u/Hazomataz cs_italy Jul 16 '17
If NBK went down on 14-14 in bathrooms that could have been a completely different result.
Gutted for Na'Vi.
→ More replies (1)
32
9
Jul 16 '17
I don't understand until when GuardiaN can keep awping above s1mple. I know s1mple respects him but again, except for one series in over a year GuardiaN is no longer the same and s1mple is one of the best awpers in the world.
7
u/Kinglord12 Jul 16 '17
S1mple is way to good at his playstyle to play the awp for Na'Vi. They need to build a new team for this to happen.
7
u/ThetaSigma11 Liquid Jul 16 '17
cue clip where guardian whiffed 5 shots in one round
cue clip where s1mple went aggro and shut down G2 single handily with the awp
Agreed.
2
8
u/DlStady FaZe Jul 16 '17
seized with the 6 bombs in 30 round hell yeah, that guys plays like me, a true monster!
2
u/K0nvict NiP Jul 17 '17
My top level maths says that's... 1 kill every 5 rounds or 3 kills every half
7
7
7
u/l3linkTree_Horep G2 Jul 16 '17
G2, can you please stop doing this to us?
I went away for like 10 minutes and it ended up at 12-3. I was furious and then you pull a comeback like that?
21
u/throwaway9901234 G2 Jul 16 '17
STRAT REVEALED: FLIP A COIN WHEN MAP VETO
8
u/IFlipCoins Jul 16 '17
I flipped a coin for you, /u/throwaway9901234 The result was: tails
Don't want me replying on your comments again? Respond to this comment with 'leave me alone'
→ More replies (1)
5
4
Jul 16 '17
12/3 curse :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
4
u/reflexmaster123 ENCE Jul 16 '17
smithzz after 1st half - we need something extraordinary nbk-hold my beer
4
3
3
3
3
3
3
u/RoyalK2015 G2 Jul 16 '17
Was about to leave the stream after the first half... awful plays from G2, then it was NaVi's turn. It was 50/50 anyways GG
3
5
4
u/CptWetPants Legendary Switzerland Master Jul 16 '17
Kids, take it from an old man. Do not be fans of French CS. It isn't good your head, heart or butt.
7
2
2
2
2
u/iSluff Jul 16 '17
Seized tried to play it safe on the 29th round by wrapping long instead of fighting nbk but he ended up just fucking over his team.
2
2
2
u/Cameter44 Jul 16 '17
The round Na'Vi ended up losing to time when NBK killed the planter (don't remember round number) was awful. They get through monster and the rifler in front of s1mple (not sure who) just stood there and blocked s1mple. First of all you don't have time to just stand there. Second, you're preventing the AWP from getting into position and holding an angle for the push. Just go, even if you get picked you have the AWP to trade and at least you're making progress towards the site, something you have to do as a T with 15 seconds left.
2
u/ReleaseTheOshawoTTN G2 Jul 16 '17
STOPPED WATCHING AT 13/10 GET BACK HOME TO SEE THIS BEAUTY TY G2
2
u/Dr_Pointblank de_inferno Jul 16 '17
I'll always say it even though people say I'm wrong. If Na'Vi ever wants to become a major title contender, they need to -Guardian and have S1mple main awp and +anactualigl and have Seized go back into his support role. Seized was a great support player and always helped Na'Vi win games when Zeus/Starix was in game leading. S1mple can be an amazing star awper if you let him. I just feel like Guardian is inconsistent and just drags the team down.
2
u/KatiushK Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17
They still my boys, but damn it sucks to watch them sometimes. :(
2
u/EnXigma valeria Jul 17 '17
NaVi let me down that game, hopefully seized will perform better in the upcoming games, I know he can play a lot better, his decisions and positioning that game was poor sadly.
Gratz to G2 on their first win
2
u/kings1zeCB Apeks Jul 17 '17
me: yo if u gonna bet on next match go on g2
friend: lol you always predict wrong im gonna go navi
friend: have you checked the score? haha good prediction
after game
me: :)
3
u/zardPUNKT BIG Jul 16 '17
simple in yolo-pugmode going crazy and interrupting everything on G2's T-side was pretty much the only thing NAVI got going for them
G2 was just better as a team
2
u/Celestetc Liquid Jul 16 '17
Seized is so bad at this game. He can't aim or do anything.
→ More replies (3)
1
1
1
1
1
1
Jul 16 '17
If seized or bodyy had decided to turn on their monitor this game would not have been close.
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/esach Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
Pretty cool watching s1mple play that fer role of info hunting / fucking shit up in bathrooms on ct side despite the loss.
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/13578mason Natus Vincere Jul 16 '17
Na'Vi should just coinflip to decide who to kick. It seems to work well.
1
1
1
1
u/laoshi14 Jul 16 '17
It's like G2 wanted to throw the game at the beginning but then remember some NA team got banned for that. also how is seized so bad ???
1
1
1
1
u/RxJax Jul 16 '17
Genuinely curious what the hit/miss ratio was for Guardian when he awped, dude hit nothing
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/ORANGEisTHEnewISIS Jul 16 '17
seized is terrible oh my.. lol how do you average 30ADR? like wow... seems like navi kicked the wrong person... get rid of seized and you will start winning again navi.. gl
1
Jul 16 '17
I'm not even surprised anymore and expect absolutely nothing and they still let me down :(
1
u/uzomi Jul 16 '17
Shox and Seized are the worst IGL of all the top 10-15 teams. At least shox can still frag while igling. But man, both T sides were awful, seized and shox had no idea what to do. I don't see any of those teams being relevant champions or dominant in a time where CS is so competitive and we have top teams with IGL like Fallen, Karrigan and glaive.
→ More replies (2)
1
1
1
u/Haloofthoughts Jul 16 '17
NBK was a CT God! If he didn't proceed to stomp the second half that flip would have been painful.
Don't avoid Nuke boys.
1
1
u/MasterBeCo 10 years coin Jul 16 '17
seized once more cost us games .... something needs to happen .
2
1
Jul 16 '17
Let's be real: both teams played terribly. Na'Vi just played worse.
Seized missing every shot, KennyS baiting his entire team, what a shitshow
1
u/buddhapestTF2 CS2 HYPE Jul 16 '17
man, is guardian done? he didn't play that badly when you look at stats, but he didn't make any round changing plays. at all. (and seized was a mess)
1
u/EGDark King NiKo Jul 16 '17
I went to sleep at half-time :(
3
u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Jul 16 '17
Imagine you like thinking " OH EZ 4 na'vi, ez $ " and wake up to this XD
1
u/Alllius de_cache Jul 16 '17
Can we get like s1mple and Edward to gambit in favor of like mou and dosia? Still have a veteran player in Edward and tbh s1mple is a better awper than mou
228
u/MJuniorDC9 Jul 16 '17
I really like the fact that NaVi is a very balanced team. While they got s1mple with 30 kills, they balance it with seized and his 6 kills.