r/GlobalOffensive • u/Chuckys2 Match Thread Team • Jun 18 '17
Discussion | Esports Team EnVyUs vs BIG / PGL Major Kraków 2017 Europe Minor - Losers Final / Post-Match Discussion
Team EnVyUs 0-2 BIG
Cobblestone: 4-16
Overpass: 6-16Train:
Congratulations to BIG on qualifying for the PGL Major Kraków 2017 Main Qualifier!
Team EnVyUs have been eliminated.
Team EnVyUs | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
BIG | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube
PGL Major Kraków 2017 Europe Minor - Information, Schedule & Discussion
For VoDs of this game check out /r/CSeventVODs
Subreddit Discord for /r/globaloffensive
Who was the MVP for this series? (POLL)
| MAP | ||
|---|---|---|
| X | ||
| X | ||
| ✔ | ||
| ✔ | ||
| X | ||
| X | ||
MAP 1/3: Cobblestone
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| nV | 4 | 0 | 4 |
| CT | T | ||
| BIG | 11 | 5 | 16 |
| nV | K | A | D |
|---|---|---|---|
| RpK | 9 | 3 | 18 |
| Happy | 9 | 1 | 18 |
| SIXER | 8 | 0 | 15 |
| xms | 7 | 3 | 18 |
| ScreaM | 7 | 2 | 18 |
| BIG | |||
| keev | 24 | 1 | 5 |
| tabseN | 23 | 2 | 9 |
| gob b | 17 | 4 | 8 |
| LEGIJA | 12 | 4 | 10 |
| nex | 11 | 4 | 8 |
Map 1 Detailed Stats
MAP 2/3: Overpass
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| nV | 4 | 2 | 6 |
| T | CT | ||
| BIG | 11 | 5 | 16 |
| nV | K | A | D |
|---|---|---|---|
| Happy | 15 | 2 | 17 |
| RpK | 13 | 8 | 20 |
| xms | 13 | 3 | 19 |
| ScreaM | 12 | 4 | 17 |
| SIXER | 11 | 0 | 16 |
| BIG | |||
| tabseN | 27 | 2 | 14 |
| gob b | 17 | 5 | 16 |
| nex | 17 | 1 | 9 |
| LEGIJA | 14 | 5 | 13 |
| keev | 14 | 3 | 12 |
Map 2 Detailed Stats
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u/xPokeyyy Match Thread Team Jun 18 '17
first time Happy isn't at a Major since his debut
edit: Since Dreamhack 2013 - ELeague 2017, Happy has made it to every Major.
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u/Spam78 Jun 18 '17
Similarly, this is the first major ScreaM attempted and failed to qualify for. The only two he's missed are DH Winter 2014, when Epsilon qualified and were subsequently disqualified when Sf got VAC'd and Katowice 2015, when he was without a team because his teammates had been banned for matchfixing.
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Jun 18 '17
[deleted]
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u/chookslol G2 Jun 18 '17
Well, you're immediately limited to players that attended the first major. Logically the list will inevitably shrink, and then eventually cease to exist.
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Jun 18 '17
True, but youd hope for some of the players, it wouldnt happen until they retire, sad to see some players fail to make it while theoretically still having a very good chance (i.e NiP core and now Happy).
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u/chookslol G2 Jun 18 '17
Indeed. Shows either the depth of talent in the game or the capability of players/teams to fall away in form.
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u/Radcliffelookalike Jun 18 '17
Honestly very few players on that list appear more impressive because of being on it. Most of the players that are still there have always been in the core of the respective top team of their scene. On the other hand Cajun, Markeloff and Zeus making it to every major is quite something considering they've moved around more than others.
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u/brooky12 NiP Jun 18 '17
Worried that markeloff will drop, F3 have to get through the qualifier and I honestly can't think of anything they've done since ELeague.
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u/Radcliffelookalike Jun 18 '17
it's definitely a reasonable concern, F3 don't play much these days, and the competition is stronger than ever on their presumed level.
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u/GivePLZ-DoritosChip MIBR Jun 18 '17
EnVy took the term "go BIG or go home" too seriously..
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Jun 18 '17
[deleted]
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u/r3al_se4l 500k Celebration Jun 18 '17
Friendship ENDED with NV. Now G2 is my best friend.
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Jun 18 '17 edited Jun 18 '17
EnVy just went from a top 8 at EPL to losing BO3s to Penta and BIG. Not sure what happened there. They aren't trading kills and I don't think I could count the amount of times Happy was last alive but failed to clutch.
The decline of nV at majors is crazy as well... They won Cluj-Napoca, out in groups at MLG, Cologne, and Atlanta, then out of the minor for Krakow.
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u/cocoshaker Jun 18 '17
you don't have to go that far in time: they stomped the 2 Brazilian team SK & IMT last event, and here they don't show anything.
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u/windirein Jun 18 '17
Maybe they like being the underdog? Some teams can't handle being even the slight favorites. Mouz comes to mind. They always suck against teams that are below them, but then they upset navi or some shit.
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u/cocoshaker Jun 18 '17
Well, you can't win any event with this mentality.
I expect much better 6months after the shuffle. It looks like they just win by only skill with no set execute. And playing in the morning does not help them, they should reschedule their working days: play in the morning and strats later!
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Jun 18 '17
dont forget ballistix,kinguin on envy's map pick (16-2) and also almost knocked by kinguin anyways. then xms got that 1v5 eco clutch and started tilting kinguin and kinguin lost every 4v2/5v2/5v3
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Jun 18 '17
NV has the same old style with Happy lurking elsewhere while his team has no set strats. GOB B read them like a book. At this day and age you can not rely on fragging alone ( sry C9 and fnatic )
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u/Asdmir Lynn Vision Jun 18 '17
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u/Gerf93 Envyus Jun 18 '17
Although his last name is Schopenhauer. Sounds German to me.
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
Do well at one tournament to give fans false hopes.
Truly disappointed and embarrassed. Not sure where to go from here, a roster change would be the easiest answer but for the org i don't know, invest somewere else? I just don't know, just sad and disappointed .
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u/takecarem8 Vitality Jun 18 '17
The only solution i can see happening is getting in ex6tence in place of Happy. I think that's possibilty, he's IGL with the likes of Scream and RPK can be effective and his style is quite different as well. I hope this happens. Please let it happen, he deserves it.
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u/Kalyr Vitality Jun 18 '17
The problem is happy. A roster with scream,rpk,xms and sixer shouldnt get rekt by tier 2/3 teams.
I don't know who to replace him with tho.
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u/Janiculus Vitality Jun 18 '17
I feel like Happy as a player really isn't the problem atm. The guy is legitemately skilled, but I feel like he would perform way better if someone else was IGL, and made him play a way more active role.
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u/Kalyr Vitality Jun 18 '17
Other french players said in interview that he would refuse to play under another igl. He gets his stats because he's the impact guy in his system.
You can compare him to fallen in the sense that he puts himself in position to have the impact. If fallen played under another IGL, i'm pretty sure he wouldn't be that strong.
The difference is that fallen's system is a lot more versatile. In this game you can hear henryG complain that envy are doing the exact same strat everyround it became super predictable.
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Jun 18 '17
maybe ex6tenz?
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u/Kalyr Vitality Jun 18 '17
french scene is always about egos so i don't know if this can happen but it would be glorious
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
People keep blaming Happy while overlooking the flaws of the other players. While i do agree that Happy is a issue, he's not the only one.
ScreaM even when putting up numbers he is way too overagressive at times and gets first blooded way too much, the same can be said for XMS even if he has been one of the bright spots about nV.
SIXER is a solid awper and really the player on the team that (imo) makes the least mistakes out of them all.
Rpk has been good but just like ScreaM he tends to overpeek at times and get lots of unnecessary deaths.
I think overall it's just a bigger problem then induvidual issues, it's a team issue clearly since they can't play basic CS and use teamwork efficiently.
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u/adam1255jk Vitality Jun 18 '17
The amount of times on Cobble I saw scream and Sixer lose the A site because scream got flashed into underpass actually triggered me so hard.
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u/Narvalodu35 Vitality Jun 18 '17
Org buying Maxisaucisse and Devil back in
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u/AemonDK Jun 18 '17
yes, bringing on two more garbage players is obviously the solution
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u/Diavolo222 SK Jun 18 '17
I mean, Devil was put into an impossible position and by the end he started to get into his own. After kicking him, they didnt really do anything and havent done anything ever since anyway.
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u/AemonDK Jun 18 '17
"impossible position" how long are people going to continue with this excuse? they even let him IGL and he was still dogshit.
they won a nice 800k and looked like they were slowly improving after kicking him, but of course dropped the ball at the major and then the roster change happened.
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u/Tugiovic Jun 18 '17
Honestly this could just be a bad tournament for the team. Sure cs_summit and Tours were atrocious but then EPL was decent. If this was the 4th LAN in a row then that would be a massive problem. But Idk. Plus what roster change can you make? -Sixer + to1nou is what some people are saying but I really don't see how this changes much. Then you could replace Happy with Ex6tenz. But then 1) you don't know if Ex6tenz wants to leave LDLC, he's basically sculpting 3 young guys and who knows if he wants to jump ship to a team that is full of "older" players. 2) What if players on nV don't want to play with Ex6tenz, maybe they don't like his strict way of calling, maybe they like the loose playing style under Happy. And 3) How do people know that it's gonna be better with Ex6tenz. The guy was removed from G2 for a guy that was mostly unknown to the tier 1 scene and then G2 went from "embarrassingly mediocre" to a top 3 team in the world.
Point is, what the fuck is the solution.
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
Point is, what the fuck is the solution.
Build a time machine, genius!
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u/Tugiovic Jun 18 '17
Yeah I mean we'll win the major after Krakow so let's just time travel to that point! /s
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Jun 18 '17
Give the roster a bit more time. You don't get far with too quick decisions
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
You don't get far with too quick decisions
Trust me when i say that i'm never one for "quick decisions" or for roster moves at all...however this performance..just uugh it leaves such a bad taste in mouth and a bad mark on the org..i just don't know..
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u/Alser0 de_overpass Jun 18 '17
Another one knocked out of the all-majors list. rip happy
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u/dukeyNRW BIG Jun 18 '17
who is still on this list?
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u/Alser0 de_overpass Jun 18 '17 edited Jun 18 '17
Been to previous 10 majors, qualified for the Kraków major: flusha, JW, KRiMZ, olofmeister, neo, TaZ, pasha, snax, byali, dev1ce, dupreeh, Xyp9x, cajunb, seized, Zeus
Been to previous 10 majors, yet to qualify for the Kraków major: shox, NBK, markeloff
Been to previous 10 majors, won't attend the Kraków major: SmithZz, Happy
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u/_Oomph_ 500k Celebration Jun 18 '17
It was almost sad to see NV lose this badly.
No headshot machine stickers this time boys.
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u/MeatGoesHam Jun 18 '17
Some of the worst CS ive seen from a top 20 team. They don't deserve to play in the qualifier
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u/Tugiovic Jun 18 '17
I would make fun of your flair and that you said
Some of the worst CS Ive seen from a top 20 team.
But then I realised maybe I should just upvote you and move on
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u/Giraffe_Penis Jun 18 '17
Rough week for Envy as an org. Lost their gears team, went 0-2 in hcs, cod team placed T24 on lan and now they failed to qualify. yikes
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u/Fahudee Jun 18 '17
In my opinion the downfall of Envyus and NIP are partly due to the fact that they are playing the way they used to years ago. Whilst this used to work back then its not necessarily what they should do now. Particularly Happy and Get right. Used to be the best lurkers in the game and it was amazing to watch them. But now people can read their tactics - they know how they play and where they are going to play. If they change up their tactics so it can't be read they can be a top tier team again. Just my opinion tho
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u/hadinhvan Jun 18 '17
I agree dude . It's 2014 tactic and now is 2017 . They need to adapt the meta game or being loser
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Jun 18 '17 edited Jun 18 '17
I think it's time for a shuffle between nV and LDLC, this nV lineup doesn't look like it's going anywhere and LDLC have been together for about 1 year now and aren't going anywhere either. nV has good players and LDLC has Ex6TenZ trapped in ELO hell.
What would be a good lineup?
Ex6TenZ
ScreaM
RPK
Happy?
to1nou?
ALEX?
xms?
Maniac?
I would say Happy + to1nou as the AWPer, but that's obviously just putting the best names together, which I'm not sure would be a balanced team.
Problem is that, in the last shuffle, I think it was said nV tried to get Ex6TenZ, but he refused, and RPK was expected to join LDLC. RPK joined nV instead + xms was "stolen" and that left some bad blood between them I believe. Still if they want to do anything in CS they should probably put their differences aside.
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u/Last_of_me Gambit Jun 18 '17
To1nou and xms imo. To1nou is a decent awp and xms is young with potential. It could be the making of a decent team, heres hoping it happens.
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Jun 18 '17
thats what happens when you shuffle and make a superteam. its not like the leftovers are gonna win much. also can i address that none of g2 nor envy performed good last major? i dont think its just this lineup
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u/kernevez Jun 18 '17
The "leftovers" are T2 players, they could definitely hope to reach the major or at least the major qualifier.
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u/Duckfright Jun 18 '17
I'd like to see Ex6TenZ-ScreaM-RPK-To1nou-Alex; honestly. Combine old and new and try to advance some key players to a higher level by surrounding them with experience.
Happy would never buy into a system that's not his, his arrogance is just too big, as was the case when NBK was IGL for EnVyUs a while ago; Happy just kept doing his same old "lurking/baiting".
If I was EnVyUs, I'd just go all-out trying to get Ex6TenZ, ala "What do you want? What's the best compromise we can make?"
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u/ajwhite98 Jun 18 '17
Am I wrong to think xms over rpk? RPK is a damn solid rock and gets along fine with ex6, but XMS would give ex6 three of his young (former) LDLC core in he, Alex, and to1nou. He'd still get to keep his goal of a team brought up in his system. It might be what it takes to convince him to shuffle, you know?
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u/Duckfright Jun 18 '17
It could be, but XMS also has a lack of experience at the big level, where RPK has plenty of; I'd pick RPK more for the moral and steadfast calmness even if he happens to frag slightly less; more team cohesion over firepower.
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u/StarkLX Liquid Jun 18 '17
Wow, that was a really pathetic set of games from envy. They all looked so lost...
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u/frux9 Jun 18 '17
Why do people think happy was the only bad player this game? Everyone played horribly this match.
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u/MauvaisVitrier de_cache Jun 18 '17
Happy needs to go, his playstyle and his teams' playstyle haven't changed at all in years, and they're now more irrelevant than ever in the current CS scene. When you watch LDLC and their cool tactics that fail purely because of a lack of firepower or discipline in post-plants situations, I just wonder what would happen if you'd swap some of the LDLC-nV players. Alex, xms, scream, sixer/rpk & ex6. Now that would be a decent team on paper. Just get rid of happy for the love of CS
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u/Duckfright Jun 18 '17
This is a good thing, perfect time for a shuffle between LDLC and EnVyUs.
Or atleast do -Happy; thanks.
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u/fckns Jun 18 '17
When do NV owner will learn that Happys approach of the game is not good anymore?
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u/OfficialDodo Jun 18 '17
I think this puts the nail in the coffin that the g2 lineup is perfectly fine without scream
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u/CptWetPants Legendary Switzerland Master Jun 19 '17
I think most (sane) people realized this back when G2 started winning games.
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u/chookslol G2 Jun 18 '17
Here at G2 we're always accepting new fans especially going into the ECS Finals this weekend. We're great if you're looking for French alternatives! I mean, sure, it's bandwagoning, but hey, G2 have never been (almost) 16-4'd twice by BIG. There was that game vs Tricked but no one's talking about that anymore.
Seriously, I love me some FRCS, but jesus, that was severely tough to watch.
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
nah i'm good.
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u/chookslol G2 Jun 18 '17
I feel like I haven't pitched this very well. You're the 3rd or 4th to openly decline.
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
It's more of a dislike for G2 as a brand then your pitching idea.
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u/Liban2233 Jun 18 '17
If you guys didn't kick scream then I would have stayed as a g2 fan
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Jun 18 '17
well scream is kind performing crap in envy and im sure g2 is better this way. there might be some personal beef with g2/titan players. i remember that they also picked kqly over him so maybe the players cant deal with him
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u/AquaNox2 G2 Jun 18 '17
Ah so you follow Scream, like I follow Shox, aahha. Mate come back to G2 <3
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u/Troll3r_Man Vitality Jun 18 '17
Thanks but no.
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u/Troll3r_Man Vitality Jun 18 '17
Very obvious that nV lost the spot for the major qualifier. Other teams had been bootcamping while nV was just practicing.
Happy needs to go. He was a beast when he was on his prime but now he's awful. Ex6tence needs to come to nV in order for the team to get better
We need a new coach. I know that malek is a good coach but he's not enough for making nV a top tier team. We must find a coach with experience that can help nV with the strats and executions.
xms is the player that nV doesn't deserve. But for him, they would have been eliminated from the 1st day. He has potential for being a very good player in the near future.
I don't know what's the next day for nV as it is a very difficult situation for them. Changes must be made and I think they will. I give them time until the end of the major.
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u/stewieeeeeeeee FaZe Jun 18 '17
Hey, so this is what happens when you pick Overpass against nV and don't lose every 4v2 and 5v2 like Kinguin.
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u/tarangk clutch Jun 18 '17
i guess we can safely say that the performance at the EPL S5 LAN finals what just a fluke, this nV roster has been to 4 LANs now cs_summit, DH Tours,EPL S5 LAN and this PGL EU minor and apart from the EPL result the rest have been crap from them.
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u/jasont424 Virtus.pro Jun 18 '17
The increasing depression and frustration in HenryG's voice was funny to listen to.
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u/YeetSkrtSkrtRatata Jun 18 '17
Why does nV bottle this!? Why!? Cobble was their map and got rekt. Summer of Broken Legends and Upsets.
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u/r3al_se4l 500k Celebration Jun 18 '17
The Russian caster was so pissed off at envy it was hilarious.
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u/CptWetPants Legendary Switzerland Master Jun 19 '17
So was HenryG. You can hear the despair in his voice. As someone who loves CS, I'm sure it was hard af for him to watch.
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u/mik5u Jun 18 '17
what was the "broken desk" joke? didnt see the match :/
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u/Paintwave Renegades Jun 18 '17
Apparently, Sixer got so mad that he slammed the table after the match. Idk if he actually broke the table or not though.
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u/Blakewow Jun 18 '17
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u/_youtubot_ Jun 18 '17
Video linked by /u/Blakewow:
Title Channel Published Duration Likes Total Views keev AWP ACE vs EnVyUs [ Europe Minor Krakow 2017 ] ESPORTS HD 2017-06-18 0:00:53 2+ (66%) 74 Tournament: Europe Minor - PGL Major Krakow 2017 Team...
^Info | /u/Blakewow can ^delete | v1.1.3b
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Jun 18 '17
This is what you get for having sixer and xms, fresh-faced tier 3 garbage. Can't build a team around that
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u/jdrc07 Jun 18 '17
As an oldschool mouz fan to see tabsen and gob b on the roster that beat nV was simply magical.
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u/ehciN Jun 18 '17
I think it's time for these teams to set their differences aside and make an actual "best of the rest"-team. The remainders after the shuffle should atleast be top10;
I hope EnVyUS or LDLC have the balls to make the changes necessary;
Ex6TenZ(igl/support/entry)-To1nou(awp)-Alex(entry)-ScreaM(second)-RPK(stable player), please.
or Ex6TenZ-To1nou-XMS/Maniac-ScreaM-RPK, with the same roles as above; but I think Alex would work better due to the experience he has gained on LDLC.
Then you get 2 "new" players with 3 experienced players, which would definitely help with the nerves and inconsistency To1nou has had.
Just disappointing. Happy is turning into a joke.
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u/hakura97 Jun 18 '17
to1nou is garbo wtf. I thought people stopped hyping that guy a long time ago.
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u/eebro 10 years coin Jun 18 '17
Kill distribution is 4 kills different in envy, and 2 kills on 2nd map.
For big it's 13 kills for both maps.
Let's just put it simply. BIG had two players that did the work of the entire team, pretty much.
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u/FreeMan4096 Jun 18 '17
but... :( Scream belongs on superteamtm
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u/gothicaly NiP Jun 18 '17
There's like a three kill spread between scream and top frag. Use not silver logic pls.
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Jun 18 '17
Scream is a player who cant assume or adjust his role and use his skill/knowledge to play around it. His approach to the game tactically is at the lower level of simply out-aiming his opponents.
His approach to the game has slightly improved under this EnvyUS roster. However it is no where near the level it should be considering his time within the Pro scene.
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u/goodbye9hello10 10 years coin Jun 18 '17
People always shit on Tabsen, but I keep seeing him play super well..
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u/tgsan Jun 18 '17
Anyone who shits on tabsen is a fucking moron....he's their most consistently good player, and when he's on...he's great. I think BIG are lucky to have tabsen to begin with.
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u/n1ckst4r02 400k Celebration Jun 18 '17
At least NIP were gradually going to shit. NV had a good run at Pro League Finals and then to this, what a shitshow.
No way in hell this team goes on like this.
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u/KPC51 guardian2 Jun 18 '17
Out of NV, BIG, Dignitas, and Penta... Who expected NV to be the team that failed to qualify
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Jun 18 '17
Really disappointed... Something needs to happen, but -Happy isn't the solution.
He can frag and is probably a better awp than Sixer.
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u/cheekia Virtus.pro Jun 19 '17
Man, I remember when NV got second at a Major and actually won the next Major.
So much has changed since then huh.
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u/matyasURBAN G2 Jun 18 '17
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u/DerpAntelope Astralis Jun 18 '17 edited Jun 18 '17
How is that tweet even relevant? It's a year old and Happy is the only player left from the nV lineup that kicked kio and if I remember correctly he wanted to keep kio.
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u/deadcandancena NiP Jun 18 '17
hi from NIP fans
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u/iSwedishVirus Jun 18 '17
tfw you're swedish and a nV fan... ¯\(ツ)/¯
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u/Ninjaflipp bravo Jun 18 '17
I remember you, but I changed team flair together with the players. Shame the nv logo is way cooler
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u/m1ndsensation NiP Jun 18 '17
I feel like Envy were trying to save their strats for the major and just ended up getting fucked by that.
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Jun 18 '17
i dont know. they failed the basics of cs and sixer died to a molly the he had 100hp, didnt land on him , he walked into it and lost the awp that they saved 2 rounds uselessly (example)
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u/Duckfright Jun 18 '17
Are you implying Happy even had strats that didn't revolve around one or two players going big?
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u/DR_FEELGOOD_01 Vitality Jun 18 '17
That was so frustrating to watch is this how NIP fans feel? rip nV