r/Yarnswap • u/half2happy Moderator | Trades: 0 • Jun 18 '23
Welcome new moderators! And adjusted protest schedule.
Pending their acceptance, we have added two new moderators to the team! They are within their rights to decline and there is no current recommended duration required to be a moderator.
Hopefully soon they will be able to complete Mod Certification (https://modeducation.reddithelp.com/page/mod-cert) and become excellent assets to this subreddit. Both indicated they currently use the official reddit app for interacting with the subreddit which is an important view that I currently am unable to experience.
Per feedback from our last thread we have adjusted the subreddit's status that would change each midnight at GMT:
Monday: open to posts and comments
Tuesday: private, touch grass and use up yarn
Wednesday: full restricted, no new posts or comments
Thursday: limited restricted (text posts only), fully open to comments
Friday: open to posts and comments
Saturday: open to posts and comments
Sunday: open to posts and comments
This schedule (selfishly the one that works the best for me) provides four fully open days, one mid level restricted day, and two closed days. Once the moderator team can discuss responsibilities and expectation, we will post another thread soliciting feedback on this schedule and make adjustments.
Thank you for your patience and please submit any comments/questions/suggestions as a comment below.
5
u/half2happy Moderator | Trades: 0 Jun 18 '23
Here are links tracking this subreddit's discussion:
Initial level of interest post: https://redd.it/141jur1
Duration poll post: https://redd.it/143gj17
Results post: https://redd.it/1459mee
Lock post: https://redd.it/14789bu
Reopen post: https://redd.it/149kyh1
Proposed schedule post: https://redd.it/14b2qm3
Discord: https://discord.gg/vf7fwgRuGd
Squabbles: http://squabbles.io/s/knitting
Crochet discord: https://discord.gg/014DfAIupSrWqdlGE
Sharetribe: https://yarnswap.sharetribe.com/
Please see the updated Explain Like I am Five thread for what all this means: https://redd.it/147vis2 and also the Science thread for our protest goals: https://redd.it/14axtmu
5
u/FeFiFoPlum Trades: 2 Jun 19 '23
I am curious as to how the restricted days will work. One of the sub rules is that you must comment on a post prior to trading; is there no concern that having partial restrictions (ie. view but not comment) will push people straight to messaging?
1
u/half2happy Moderator | Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
That is an excellent question.
For the record... During the initial protest of two days fully restricted, some comments soliciting yarn were made and approved by a moderator during designated "check in" times. Zero users reached out to the moderators about people messaging them directly.
Do you propose we revise the full restricted to only limit posts and allow comments?
3
u/FeFiFoPlum Trades: 2 Jun 19 '23
I’m probably the wrong person to ask! While I have great empathy for the users who will suffer due to accessibility concerns, I’m a user of the native Reddit app and also a cynic in terms of what I believe ongoing protests will accomplish (unfortunately nothing, I suspect). I would prefer the sub to simply stay open - but I recognize that’s not a universal opinion and I’m both new here and only an occasional buyer.
That said, I think that receiving no messages about people going outside the rules during a well-publicized two-day shutdown may not be indicative of how that will play out long term. I can see how someone accessing the sub on a “read only” day might come across yarn they want to purchase and be tempted to go around the system so as to not lose out. I understand why the post first rule is in place, and this may encourage people to flout it.
9
u/Ornery-Signal-3070 Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
I’ll be honest, this is a bit much. I get it protesting and all but people have enough to keep track of in their normal daily life, you’re imposing rules that are an inconvenience. I’ll see myself out. Good luck and I’m sorry if anyone gets upset that I won’t praise the mods for their virtue or join the herds. That goes against my own personal convictions. I’ve purchased a lot of yarn from this sub so it was good while it was simple. Good luck moving forward.
5
u/half2happy Moderator | Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
I am not upset, thank you for sharing your perspective.
My personal conviction is to stand with those living with visual impairments as they attempt to retain access to the site that brought us all together.
I am doing my best to solicit feedback from this subreddit while onboarding additional moderators.
1
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23
Thank you so much for doing this. Might you consider publicizing the links to the Yarnswap and Stitchcord (https://discord.gg/kECwRUt) Discord links more prominently. It might be helpful to remind people that while this and other subs are protesting Reddit's appaling treatment of accessibility issues (see https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), there are other more accessibility-friendly and still-functioning platforms for the crafting community
8
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
Have you considered the inconvenience that blind and vision impaired people face every day in their lives? The mods have attempted to strike a compromise between standing with those less fortunate than you and your convenience.
7
u/ConcernedMap Trades: 5 Jun 19 '23
I had understood that accessibility apps allowing blind people to access Reddit would still be free, but I haven’t been following closely.
2
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23 edited Jun 21 '23
Hi, this is partially true. Reddit has decided to exempt 3 handpicked apps (Dystopia for iOS, RedReader for Android, and Luna for Desktop). Unfortunately, this comes with a lot of ifs/ands/buts.
Long story short, these apps have nowhere near the same amount of accessibility features available as the apps (like Apollo,etc) that have announced they'll be shutting down. Vision impairment includes more than people who are totally blind. I'm not blind, but I have certain visual impairments that make the Dystopia unhelpful to me. Reddit is only allowing the 3 exempt apps to be exempt if they never monetize. How, then, would the developers be able to maintain and expand new accessibility features to fully serve the disabled community?
Reddit's recent meeting with the moderators of r/Blind also make it apparent that Reddit won't be able to meet accessibility needs on its own official apps by the time of the API changes. They don't even have a single full time accessibility focused staff member in the whole company!
If you care about this issue I encourage you to follow this thread https://reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/
4
u/Ornery-Signal-3070 Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
Let’s be logical for a minute. Realistically it’s a very small minority or people who are blind. Its even fewer people who are both blind and knit. The vast majority are unaffected. Not to say this very small population of people don’t matter, do not accuse me of that, but they deal with adversity everyday and manage to thrive regardless. I sympathize with them and admire their resilience. There are 10k subscribers to this sub, realistically, how many people here are affected? I’m not trying to be mean, insensitive, or anything really this is my rational argument. Statistically this would affect maybe a handful of people using this sub. I won’t post anymore opposing rhetoric for the simple fact that I can live without this subreddit, in fact I might save some money without it. Someone started this sub for one reason: To trade and swap yarn. Now we’re wandering into territory that doesn’t have anything to do with its original intent. Therefore it has no use or interest to me.
3
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23
Wow, this makes me sad about humanity. First, who said this was just about people who are completely "blind"? Visual impairment includes more than people who are completely sightless. I'm someone who has sight but still has visual impairments and who uses the accessibility settings in the apps Reddit is killing off.
Ok, I'm just N=1. What about the fact that "findings from the 2018 National Health Interview Survey (NHIS) data release established that an estimated 32.2 million adult Americans (or about 13% of all adult Americans) reported they either "have trouble" seeing, even when wearing glasses or contact lenses, or that they are blind or unable to see at all." Source: American Foundation for the Blind. Okay, so over 1 in 10 people. r/knitting has 453k members. That's 58,890 estimated visually impaired members. r/crochet has 655k. You can do the math. (https://www.afb.org/research-and-initiatives/statistics)
Yes, we "deal with adversity everyday." Reddit is choosing to add to that adversity through its appalling treatment of accessibility issues (https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) . That's what mods of this and other subs like r/crochet have decided to protest.
I also wonder why you assume few disabled people knit or crochet. If someone has difficulty reading screens, wouldn't screen-free activities become even more appealing and important? After the head injury that left me with vision issues, knitting became one of the few hobbies I could do that didn't hurt my brain. I'm now able to knit with my eyes closed when they need a rest.
It also saddens me the way your language suggests you view this as a "them, not me" kind of problem. I'd imagine that a number of people experience vision issues as they experienced aging. Everyone will experience aging if they're lucky enough not to already die first. There's also another funny thing about being disabled. You might correctly assume you'll never experience what it's like to be someone of a racial/ethnic/other minority in your lifetime. But the uncomfortable reality is everyone is only an accident away from becoming among the disabled people you call a "them."
There's volumes more I could say, but I'm going to go rest my eyes now.
2
u/Ornery-Signal-3070 Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23
I’m sorry if you feel personally attacked, that was not my intent. I am a racial minority, so I do kinda know how that feels. I never expect accommodations, even though I could absolutely get a leg up over others by doing so.
These are my opinions, and I am entitled to them as you are yours. You really didn’t have to type all that. I do understand because I looked into a those stats prior to my reply. I did it full well knowing it would ruffle feathers but not because it would.
The truth is, if we all just go along with everything that’s popular at the moment life would be pretty boring. Im just adding my spicy take and though I appreciate you taking the time I feel exactly the same as when I wrote it.
1
u/sneakpeekbot Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23
Here's a sneak peek of /r/knitting using the top posts of the year!
#1: My life’s work is now complete. I will be buried in this. I think this is the best thing I’ve ever knit. | 264 comments
#2: Feeling sentimental and wanted to share this beautiful dress knit by my late grandmother | 191 comments
#3: the ego boost that this sweater is giving me is wild | 121 commentsI'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact | Info | Opt-out | GitHub
20
u/Charming_Scratch_538 Trades: 0 Jun 18 '23
Touch grass Tuesday for a sub dedicated to trading yarn and not random chatting. Right.
9
u/NoMoreBillz Trades: 3 Jun 19 '23
Well, there’s always Facebook for trading yarn and tools! I understand this protest but this still way too limiting for a group that should be focused on helping the yarn community.
5
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23 edited Jun 19 '23
What about helping disabled members of the yarn community? Are we not important as well? Like you said, there are other avenues for the craft community to trade yarn and tools while this and other subs continue to try to make an impact on Reddit. If you read the stickies comment, the kids have made this new Discord (https://discord.gg/vf7fwgRuGd) and the larger StitchCord Discord (https://discord.gg/kECwRUt) has channels for trades as well
6
u/What_the_froot_Loops Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
I'm confused by your two comments. I'm not trying to be rude, but what does being disabled have to do with limiting the times people can post in a yarn trading sub?
-5
u/delicatearchcouple Trades: 0 Jun 19 '23
I'm sure some hero will step in for a better explanation, but basically, the recent drama with the Reddit API will limit the ability of vision impaired users to use the site for free. The tools they use will likely come with a cost since Reddit's API will no longer be free to access.
My understanding is that this sub's updated rules and "protest" are in response, though it seems more from a practicality standpoint in terms of moderator load than concern for the vision impaired, despite this particular user.
2
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23
You're correct that the Reddit-wide protests have been in response to Reddit's recently-announced API policy changes that will adversely vision-impaired and otherwise disabled users.
You're incorrect that the changes will simply result in vision-impaired users being able to enjoy the same accessibility tools as before but just with a fee. No- exactly the opposite is happening. Because of the exorbitant pricing structure Reddit is imposing, most of the main apps that disabled users have relied on have announced they are shutting down completely.
Reddit announced that it will exempt 3 handpicked apps from the API policy change: Dystopia for iOS, RedReader for Android, and Luna for desktop. However, their conditon is that the apps will not be allowed to monetize. If you ask me, this will ensure that the developers do not have the resources to maintain these apps with the same amount of rich accessibility features as the other for-profit apps that are shutting down. Dystopia isn't even out of beta testing and isn't even available on the iOS app store.
Reddit's recent meeting with the moderators of r/Blind has shown that they don't really seem to give a crap either.
Moderators, like that of this sub, have decided to continue to protest Reddit's API changes in order to stand with the disabled community.
7
u/ElderQueer Trades: 40 Jun 19 '23
🤔
I believe the fact that some members are frustrated with the new schedule shows their privilege. They care about how and when and if they can access the sub... when it DIRECTLY affects THEM. Does this mean they didn't care about API changes and issues surrounding access for OTHERS between June 12th-14th? Does this mean they don't care now/anymore? Have they grown tired of possibly performative action and want to get back to the privilege of 'business as usual'? Have they not looked into the availability/ease of continuing yarnswap on other already existing platforms?
If access is truly important to you, then I implore you to do (even just a teensy bit of) some reading on the impact of the blackout/going dark/API changes. It is very easy to educate yourself. I'm not an expert, but I am following along. There are some FANTASTIC explanations out there, as well as lists of subreddits who are still protesting, what they are doing to protest, which subreddits have never joined the protest and why, the unkind views Reddit has of it's users, things Reddit is doing to undermine it's users, etc. It's appalling what is happening, and if you used/continue to use this platform then it would benefit you to understand it. It all affects you even if you don't yet realize it.
If you want to understand what's going on, I have found r/Save3rdPartyApps and r/ModCoord to be excellent resources for explanations, updates, and more! Cheers!
3
u/goodytwoshoes909 Trades: 0 Jun 21 '23
Thank you for this. I encourage those who care to follow the stickied posts on r/Blind, including this one https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
And to consider bringing our craft community's traffic to other platforms that give more of a crap about accessibility, such as Discord. Here's a link to the StitchCord Discord group, which includes both knitting and crochet: https://discord.gg/kECwRUt
5
u/tuberosalamb Trades: 4 Jun 19 '23
That’s all from me, folks. Didn’t realize I needed to touch grass for participating on a sub solely dedicated to yarn trading
2
u/MinervaZee Trades: 2 Jun 19 '23
I don’t have an issue with Tuesday pauses. It’s a lot of work and a small mod team. If this makes the workload more manageable for them, great.
8
u/NextLevelNaps Trades: 5 Jun 19 '23
Preface: I'm in no way trying to start beef or saying I support what Reddit is doing. I think it's a greedy move that will negativity impact their entire business along with impacting multiple groups of users who, for their own personal reasons be them disability or otherwise, will no longer be able to access Reddit as they once did if at all.
Has there been discussion of how long these protests will be across various mod groups for subs that have decided to continue with their own version of protesting? And what's the contingency plan if the CEO continues with business as usual and these API rates go into effect? I ask because it seems that the CEO is planning to stay the course, at least for now, and that continued protests are very disjointed and are, in essence, presenting as ineffective since each sub still participating is doing it in their own separate way.
Again, I do not support reddit's decision at all. I'm just trying to see what the thinking behind the curtain is and trying to understand what the plans are moving forward. I genuinely think that unless we, as a collective base of reddit subs and mods, collectively take a bigger, more injurious action, whats-his-face will enact these changes. He's basically said as much from that internal email.